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Thread: one of the better wing chun clips on youtube

  1. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjurakpt View Post
    certainly I am aware that the combat use of dantien breathing being discussed; however, you will notice that my original post on this thread was directly in reference to a general question posed by Mr. Punch, and also to address the descriptions of respiration posted by Punch and SoCo; so while it may not have addressed combat application specifically, it addressed fundamental concepts of this type of breathing and of breathing in general, which is not irrelevant, as they are the foundation upon which combat dantien breathing is based;
    also, CFT asked this question
    To cut a long story short, Mr Punch's question was addressed to me and not anyone else. So to say that it was a general question is a LIE! I see the same pattern again Mr Chris!

    As far as CFT is concerned, I personally took it to mean dantien breathings relevance to combat. However, even if it wasn't, I doubt that he wanted an explication of dantien breathing on the "cellular" level.

    And then SoCoKungFu, who is in the medical profession himself and god help the person whose life depends on him. You could have PM-ed him your monologue.

    Quote Originally Posted by cjurakpt
    I answered it; so, having established the contextual relevance of my posts, the content itself remains in quesion, which you addressed as follows:

    ok; so that's how you would explain it; while it is pithy, it is also overly simplistic, lacking a great deal of specificity; for example, you still do not state what actually goes on when one is "breathing in the dantien" (whereas my post described two methods of doing that in detail) - yours mentions generating a "relaxed" mind and countering the adrenaline rush; some might believe that you are talking about "natural" / Buddhist version (belly expands when you inhale) however, the combat-based internalists I have worked with would recommend just the opposite, the "reverse" / Taoist breathing (belly "contracts") in order to accomplish this; so which one are you advocating?
    You went over the top with your explanation. Listen, most of the knuckleheads here have only mastered the Western Breathing method just because it keeps them alive. A simple combat related piece of one paragraph would have been fine.

    If you look at my various posts on the subject then you will see what it is that I mean. Of course I am referring to the posts other than the ones addressed to your cognitively challenged forum friend, unkokusai.

    Quote Originally Posted by cjurakpt
    yes and no; as you imply, qigong is very specific - as such, "combat" based qigong will generate very different results from "health based" or even "general" qigong; doing one type will not typically spill over into the sort of results you get from another type,
    Not necessarilly!


    Quote Originally Posted by cjurakpt
    so here you seem to be talking about "reverse" breathing, since the (relative)"expansion of the lower abdominal area occurs during exhalation / power issuance; on the one hand, I would agree; on the other hand sometime inhaling during issuing power is called for - it just produces a different effect (e.g. - the type of "jing" that you issue will be in accordance to the type of attack)
    I understand what you are saying, but what is your point (besides demonstrating your knowledge, when I didn't ask for it). Look there are many types of chi kung. Hard/Soft "normal/reverse" etc. There are chi kung aspects and exercises that none of us will ever get to know. So what is your point? The man asked how I breath and I explained.

    Quote Originally Posted by cjurakpt
    is this an attempt at sarcasm / belittling in order to generate some sort of emotional response on my part?
    Sarcasm? Belittling?

    Do you always "misunderstand" when people try to help you expand your knowledge by teaching you things that you don't know?

    Quote Originally Posted by cjurakpt
    are you suggesting that a) I don't actually understand dantien breathing / qigong
    I am suggesting that you may not know all that you think you know. Actually you don't!

    Quote Originally Posted by cjurakpt
    or that b) my sifu is "no good"?
    I don't know if your sifu is good or bad or if he was good then wether he taught you all you needed to know. I am not talking about therapy but KUNG FU!

    Quote Originally Posted by cjurakpt
    that's a pretty odd thing to say, considering you don't know anything really about my training / his instruction;
    Not really. My opinion of your training is based on your own comments regarding kung fu in other threads.

    Quote Originally Posted by cjurakpt
    again, this seems typical of your ad hominum attack m/o, which for some strange reason you can't seem to forgo even during an attempt at a reasoned discussion about technique;
    I have tried "reasoned" discussion with you before, at your request I might add. I seem to remember that you referred to it as being "civil". You know how long that lasted don't you. I know that you are no real kung fu exponent and what little your sifu taught you doesn't include morals or humility.

    Quote Originally Posted by cjurakpt
    anyway, please don't be concerned about "teaching" me anything -
    Well with that attitude of yours, I am not going to teach anything either.

    Quote Originally Posted by cjurakpt
    from the way you discuss internal / qigong, it is readily apparent that your level of experiential understanding is far less than mine,
    Yes, I can see how.

    After all I did not manage to take a simple KUNG FU based question and turn it into an unending d1ck waving monologue that chased away the posters that even unkokusai hadn't managed to scare off.


    Quote Originally Posted by cjurakpt
    there is really nothing at all that you have to offer me in this area;
    Believe me there is, but you wouldn't understand it. People like you never understand chi kung or indeed kung fu fully and that is because to understand them, you have to have the ability to see the wood for the trees. And that skill I know that your sifu never taught you!

    Quote Originally Posted by cjurakpt
    Chuang Tzu's statement "the men of old breathed clear down to their heels"; do you have personal experience of what it feels like to breathe through the soles of your feet? this is true root ("gan"), because it also allows one to maintain lightness ("hing) in the upper torso, which is necessary for proper power issuance
    Again, another example of, "hey look, I know this and I know that, how about you".
    In our Wing Chun school our power issuance comes from breathing the way described before and "sinking", combined with relaxed body unity.

    Quote Originally Posted by cjurakpt
    again, what sort? typically it's the "reverse" stuff, although you also do the "natural" for cooling down
    I wont go into the specifics of the exercises, as those are not discussed outside the school, but I suppose you can classify as "reverse", ie. breath out and expand.


    Quote Originally Posted by cjurakpt
    again with the sarcasm / derision; is this a reactive habit on your part? why do you have such difficulty remaining civil during a reasoned discussion?
    Because I have seen you being "civil" starting with your first post addressed to me through to the "famous" and ugly prank in which you participated.

    Quote Originally Posted by cjurakpt
    I don't worry about you at all; as for my clients, they typically appear satisfied with my explanations and are able to put them to pragmatic use, so I fail to see why I should be worried about irritating them?
    Then don't worry about irritating them, let them worry.


    Quote Originally Posted by cjurakpt
    maybe in the land of "just 'cause HW8 says so", LOL - get real - so far, this thread has gone off in numerous directions including 1) assessment of the initial video posted; 2) discussion of "dantien" breathing as relates to combat[
    (my posts being relevant here, as they speak to fundamental issues concerning breathing in general);
    Let me see, hey guys when you are striking make sure that your anterior abdominal wall is not contracting"
    Relevant to combat? Yes, keep on dreaming.


    Quote Originally Posted by cjurakpt
    3) some sort of quasi religious / racial sub-plot w/Ali and unkokusai;
    Unkokusai is one of your mentaly disturbed knucklehead forum buddies and wherever he goes he causes trouble. Maybe you should treat him. You know, stick needles in him or something, preferably in his eyes.

    Quote Originally Posted by cjurakpt
    4) the usual exchange of plesantries between you and unkokusai
    That unkokusai again! you sure keep interesting company. At least we don't have to deal with other fakes such as Sanjuro, who has apparently got me on ignore since the day I exposed his lies.

    However, we both know that he doesn't have his ignore button on, just like you didn't have yours on when you briefly pretended to have me on ignore, YET MORE LIES and falsehoods dished out by both of you "civil" people.

    Quote Originally Posted by cjurakpt
    yes; and again, my posts were in response to basic questions on breathing asked by Mr. Punch and CFT;
    And I have explained about those questions. However, the next time someone asks a basic question, try and give a BASIC (and relevant) answer.


    Quote Originally Posted by cjurakpt
    again, I would argue that you have no basis for that statement, given the wide range of topics discussed and for reasons I mentioned earlier;
    Don't humor me, we both know that the range of the topics were not "wide" enough for your monologue.
    Last edited by HardWork8; 10-15-2008 at 05:58 AM.

  2. #332
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    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  3. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Punch View Post
    Interesting again. The dantien below the navel appears to me to be the ONE that is focused on most and most universally in Eastern MA and esoteric practice, except for those practices that emphasize all of them working together. You say from your studies: is this from Lee Shing, or other sources? Is it from being taught in other disciplines?

    ...The important part about the abdominal one is that it always seems to be used in tandem with the other waist one at the base of the spine. It's pretty much the same as when you focus on your abdominal breathing for a 1RM weightlifting squat.
    Ah! A response AND someone who mentions weight lifting!! Hooray!! Finally a practical response to researching Chi! Skeletal, muscle and tendon alignment to produce the desired effect!! Whether that be longevity or muscle mass, it's all the same fme.

    Firstly Mr Punch, yep, most of this 'knowledge' has come from my time in the Lee Shing Family. However, I was 'forced' to research as Sifu would talk very little about Chi (Hei in cantonese) as he preferred to 'show'. Most training had to be supported with intricate 'touch & feel' exercises but he knew that other cultures explained similar concepts using better English, so he directed me. I read alot, especially researching Buddhism, Taoism, Paganism, Yoga and other physical/spiritual paths and we talked endlessly about it all. Bottom line is, without a certain amount of understanding and practical experience of Chi/Hei, your Martial Arts can only go so far. Potentially, without any understanding you may never take your talent into old age.

    In other methods, a single dose of a certain plant will 'open' your body to Chi! And so does sitting with your back towards an open fire or the Sun.

    The lower/abdominal Dantien seems to always get a mention because it is the ORIGIN of chi/hei, the cultivation centre if you like. I understand that the others mentioned have separate names (even numbers in TCM) but they are still referred to as 'energy fields' of sorts.

    FWIW 5 Elements Hei Gung is a pre-cursor of Six Harmony Hei Gung!! Don't even ask about the 7 'stars'!!!??? That IS difficult to explain Lee Shing was known for having sets to practice Hei Gung, but nothing will do a better job than the forms themselves imo.

    Sanjuro - nice clip! Keep the thread on subject eh!!? Leung Ting fellas eh?
    Ti Fei
    詠春國術

  4. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneTiger108 View Post
    Ah! A response AND someone who mentions weight lifting!! Hooray!! Finally a practical response to researching Chi! Skeletal, muscle and tendon alignment to produce the desired effect!! Whether that be longevity or muscle mass, it's all the same fme.

    Firstly Mr Punch, yep, most of this 'knowledge' has come from my time in the Lee Shing Family. However, I was 'forced' to research as Sifu would talk very little about Chi (Hei in cantonese) as he preferred to 'show'. Most training had to be supported with intricate 'touch & feel' exercises but he knew that other cultures explained similar concepts using better English, so he directed me. I read alot, especially researching Buddhism, Taoism, Paganism, Yoga and other physical/spiritual paths and we talked endlessly about it all. Bottom line is, without a certain amount of understanding and practical experience of Chi/Hei, your Martial Arts can only go so far. Potentially, without any understanding you may never take your talent into old age.

    In other methods, a single dose of a certain plant will 'open' your body to Chi! And so does sitting with your back towards an open fire or the Sun.

    The lower/abdominal Dantien seems to always get a mention because it is the ORIGIN of chi/hei, the cultivation centre if you like. I understand that the others mentioned have separate names (even numbers in TCM) but they are still referred to as 'energy fields' of sorts.

    FWIW 5 Elements Hei Gung is a pre-cursor of Six Harmony Hei Gung!! Don't even ask about the 7 'stars'!!!??? That IS difficult to explain Lee Shing was known for having sets to practice Hei Gung, but nothing will do a better job than the forms themselves imo.

    Sanjuro - nice clip! Keep the thread on subject eh!!? Leung Ting fellas eh?
    "reverse" breathing is the most "natural" way to breathe when weight lifting.
    As for Leung Ting, I like him, I like his clips and I like his personality, he is quite the joker and his brand of "rough-n-tumble" WC appeals to many people.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  5. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post

    That’s actually what it would look like but a little clearer and a lot more sooner, when I T-off… Sisssssssssssy! (in fun)…… But seriously!


    Ali Rahim.

  6. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1bad65 View Post
    Yes, I am doubting it.

    Until I see video of it actually working in an 'alive' setting, I'll put as much faith in it as I do claims about UFOs, the Loch Ness Monster, or Bigfoot.

    I think there’s a ‘Big Foot’ and a 'Loch Ness Monster'…. And they’re setting right next to you watching the same clip, as you all ride off in your U.F.O.…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcme8k62sc8



    Ali Rahim.
    Last edited by Ali. R; 10-15-2008 at 10:19 AM.

  7. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ali. R View Post
    That’s actually what it would look like but a little clearer and a lot more sooner, when I T-off…
    And I'm sure you have video of that.
    When given the choice between big business and big government, choose big business. Big business never threw millions of people into gas chambers, but big government did.

    "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men" -Samuel Adams

  8. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ali. R View Post
    I think there are a ‘Big Foot’ and a 'Loch Ness Monster'…. And they’re setting right next to you watching the same clip, as you all ride off in your U.F.O.…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcme8k62sc8
    That proves what? You have 2 WC guys going at it. Of course one of the WC guys is going to win.

    I want to see it work against a different style in an alive setting.
    When given the choice between big business and big government, choose big business. Big business never threw millions of people into gas chambers, but big government did.

    "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men" -Samuel Adams

  9. #339
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    Duh, I don’t need a clip, the person got what he asked for when wanted to see such a fight...

    See that would have been the same outcome, as if I would have put up a clip…
    Dam if do, and dam if you don’t… You have made my case…

    Be sure not to hit any consolation…

    Nobody seen two wing chun guys going at it in that clip but you…


    Ali Rahim.

  10. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ali. R View Post
    Nobody seen two wing chun guys going at it in that clip but you…
    What styles did you see represented?
    When given the choice between big business and big government, choose big business. Big business never threw millions of people into gas chambers, but big government did.

    "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men" -Samuel Adams

  11. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ali. R View Post
    Duh, I don’t need a clip, the person got what he asked for when wanted to see such a fight...

    See that would have been the same outcome, as if I would have put up a clip…
    Dam if do, and dam if you don’t… You have made my case…
    Whatever. Enjoy being looked at as a joke like the last moron who tried that approach.

    You know you have no video. You can't make a case without evidence. But then again, that's never stopped you WC guys.
    When given the choice between big business and big government, choose big business. Big business never threw millions of people into gas chambers, but big government did.

    "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men" -Samuel Adams

  12. #342
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    That’s right, whatever...

    You’re so confused; you don’t have a clue on what you were looking at…

    PS. That was a live fight with people standing around and everything … Look who’s bailing out now?

    You remind me of an old gospel hem that goes; “ I’ll fly away in the morning”… I’ll fly away…


    Ali Rahim.

  13. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ali. R View Post
    That was a live fight with people standing around and everything … Look who’s bailing out now?
    Are you serious???? Dude, there were NO head shots tried!!!! Even the dreaded 'street fighters' aim for the head.

    If that clip is the best you can do, no wonder people laugh at WC as an effective system.
    When given the choice between big business and big government, choose big business. Big business never threw millions of people into gas chambers, but big government did.

    "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men" -Samuel Adams

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