one of the better wing chun clips on youtube

[Chuan fa]

He's a pretty cool dude. Trained a bit with him when he was here in LA visiting Sifu Lam's. Most people who lift heavy weights a lot end up looking a bit rigid.

[HardWork8]

He's a pretty cool dude. Trained a bit with him when he was here in LA visiting Sifu Lam's. Most people who lift heavy weights a lot end up looking a bit rigid.

That emphasises the need to apply caution when supplementing kung fu practice with weight training.

He also exhales like a boxer (or dare I say a kickboxer ) rather than a kung fu man.

All together this looks like a very external Wing Chun. However as this guy is a Gary Lam student then most probably he can fight.

[Phil Redmond]

That emphasises the need to apply caution when supplementing kung fu practice with weight training.

He also exhales like a boxer (or dare I say a kickboxer ) rather than a kung fu man.

All together this looks like a very external Wing Chun. However as this guy is a Gary Lam student then most probably he can fight.

Kung Fu people exhale as well depending on the style. Many are similar to boxers.

[HardWork8]

Kung Fu people exhale as well depending on the style. Many are similar to boxers.

We NEVER exhale like boxers in our Wing Chun training. The way we do it is very deep (from the dan-tien) and it is very subtle and uses a different "mechanism" to upper body breathing.

In some kung fu styles you may hear the exhalation(eg. some Tiger styles) but again the breath will originate in the dan-tien, reflecting in part, the internal (and quite often forgotten) side of all kung fu training.

Having said that, if we are talking about "Modern Kung Fu", then I suppose that it is a case of anything goes.

[Ali. R]

We NEVER exhale like boxers in our Wing Chun training. The way we do it is very deep (from the dan-tien) and it is very subtle and uses a different "mechanism" to upper body breathing.

In some kung fu styles you may hear the exhalation(eg. some Tiger styles) but again the breath will originate in the dan-tien, reflecting in part, the internal (and quite often forgotten) side of all kung fu training.

Having said that, if we are talking about "Modern Kung Fu", then I suppose that it is a case of anything goes.

You got that right, and the killer part about all of this; is that someone, or a practitioner that have been training kung fu for over 20 years should know better… There are no differences that are compatible between eastern and western ideals; especially the concepts of breathing (Martial Arts) and for one too do so, will be taking a short cut.

And to mix the two is nothing more then b@stardizing the martial concepts between the east and the west, and to say; that this is what one does or should do is nothing more then hypocrisy on both ends of the candle…


Ali Rahim.

[couch]

Kung Fu people exhale as well depending on the style. Many are similar to boxers.

I exhale on contact. I consciously practice this when hitting the mitts or the bag. For me, it puts focus into the attack. I also think it's important practice for when the ish hits the fan. When under stress, it's harder to breathe. For me - in tense situations - I hyperventilate and can't get enough air out. So for me, breathing out is a focus and de-stressing tool.

[CFT]

I exhale on contact. I consciously practice this when hitting the mitts or the bag. For me, it puts focus into the attack. I also think it's important practice for when the ish hits the fan. When under stress, it's harder to breathe. For me - in tense situations - I hyperventilate and can't get enough air out. So for me, breathing out is a focus and de-stressing tool.

I don't think anyone is saying don't exhale on contact. There seems to be an issue as to whether 'occidental' and 'oriental' martial arts do it in a different way.

When you are stressed I would contend that both do it in the same 'natural' way rather than the 'trained' way.

[mjw]

Either way you have to breathe or you will pass out so I don't put too much stress on how I breathe so long I am breathing inorder to keep going.......

[Mr Punch]

FWIW, Yip Man is said to have said to breathe naturally. AFAIK, this was always a major difference between wing chun and many other kf styles. And I don't know of any mention he made of the dantien at all. Anyone supposedly speaking from a Yip Man lineage about dantien breathing care to back that up?

[Mr Punch]

Most people who lift heavy weights a lot end up looking a bit rigid.

Yeah, cos Wanderlei Silva, Randy Couture, Fedor, Tyson, Lennox Lewis, Ali, Bruce Lee... all stiff as boards...

[sanjuro_ronin]

Yeah, cos Wanderlei Silva, Randy Couture, Fedor, Tyson, Lennox Lewis, Ali, Bruce Lee... all stiff as boards...

Those ridgid mofus !
Like GSP too, that stiff *******, or even numbnuts VanDame, that guy could even do the splits !
Or Dolph Lundegren, that inflexable monkey !

[HardWork8]

FWIW, Yip Man is said to have said to breathe naturally.

I understand that in the Far East during Yip Man's time many people breathed naturally through their bellies. Actually, that is the way I was taught to breath. However, when striking I was told to breath out through the dan-tien and there are various ways of doing even that.

Anyway, I do not practice the Yip Man lineage of Wing Chun, but I doubt very much if Yip Man breathed out like boxer everytime he hit the bag.

The fact that other sifus are doing so may in part explain the attraction that Wing Chun has for "kickboxer" fraternity.

In our school the training of Chi Kung is a fundemental part of Wing Chun. Infact, the first part of Siu Lim Tao is on one level a chi kung exercise. You cannot have internals/chi kung without the proper dan-tien breathing.

AFAIK, this was always a major difference between wing chun and many other kf styles.

I doubt that but then I could be wrong, but apparently at least the mainland Chinese lineage of Wing Chun that I practice is jam packed with Chi Kung.

And I don't know of any mention he made of the dantien at all.

I could be wrong again, but many traditional teachers of kung fu did/do not "mention" the internals just to any one, but then he Yip Man may have just "taken out" those aspects together with the various grappling and striking techniques which he did not deem viable for his school.

Having said that, I know for a fact that former Yip Man student (or disciple?) William Cheung has for a while had a book out on Chi kung training, but then again Wong Shong Leung did not seem to advocate such training. It is all confusing.

Anyone supposedly speaking from a Yip Man lineage about dantien breathing care to back that up?

Oh yes please.

[HardWork8]

Those ridgid mofus !
Like GSP too, that stiff *******, or even numbnuts VanDame, that guy could even do the splits !
Or Dolph Lundegren, that inflexable monkey !

When we talk about relaxation in kung fu we are really talking about different levels that far exceed what you see in the "external"....ah nevermind....it didn't sink in before and it won't be sinking in now.

[Liddel]

I don't think anyone is saying don't exhale on contact. There seems to be an issue as to whether 'occidental' and 'oriental' martial arts do it in a different way.

When you are stressed I would contend that both do it in the same 'natural' way rather than the 'trained' way.

Totally agree here.

People do breathe differently for sure. People with Asthma are said to breathe through thier mouth more than the nose which is said to be a contributor to the condition, this gives rise to more Carbons in thier system...

But as far as fighting i think once youve been tagged and/ or your adrenaline is up your going to have a hard time trying to breathe in a trained way if you havent been learning to do so most of your life...

From personal experience breathing techs go out the window when your nose is busted and you only have your mouth to rely on...and your getting punched there

FWIW, Yip Man is said to have said to breathe naturally. AFAIK, this was always a major difference between wing chun and many other kf styles. And I don't know of any mention he made of the dantien at all. Anyone supposedly speaking from a Yip Man lineage about dantien breathing care to back that up?

The only thing my Sifu ever said the old man taught him about breathing was during the forms to take one deep breathe in and three bursts out repeated over and over untill the form is finished. Breathing out as you want to release force !
in through the nose out through the mouth....

Nothing mystical, just practical. Well in his opinion LOL.

And to mix the two is nothing more then b@stardizing the martial concepts between the east and the west

Wouldnt it be tayloring it to the individual...
I mean it cant be any more b@stardized than a westener being taught kung fu in the first place can it LOL

For the sake of the discussion - the amount of asians with different takes on WC alone, one could argue is already b@stardizing the system....

Its a personal thing...*******ization is perspective IMO

DREW

[HardWork8]

You got that right, and the killer part about all of this; is that someone, or a practitioner that have been training kung fu for over 20 years should know better… There are no differences that are compatible between eastern and western ideals; especially the concepts of breathing (Martial Arts) and for one too do so, will be taking a short cut.

You are right and unfortunately Wing Chun and Kung Fu are in the mess that they are in today because of these short cuts.