The Hard Truth

[Satori Science]

off topic, but for all you deep thinkers out there its some stuff we are all thinking about

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbuM8gVKvlc

[SimonM]

Can't watch Youtube from work. Just so I know what is the topic of this ambiguous thread?

[Xiao3 Meng4]

Disaster Capitalism, Crisis Capitalism, etc.

New Orleans, 9/11, Iraq, etc.

[Shaolinlueb]

1/10 teh fail

[SimonM]

that's an awful lot of material for one little video.

[cjurakpt]

he's way off base in regards to at least one thing: the privatization of schools in New Orleans has been about the best thing that has happened to the public system in a long time:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/17/ma...Orleans-t.html

so to answer why they "had to" privatize them, I think it was more of a question of seizing an opportunity to restructure a failing system without having to go through the typical bureaucratic channels that would have probably derailed any major efforts at reform if it was simply business as usual

personally, I am always leery of someone who is "right" about things he has no direct experience with...

[Ultimatewingchun]

We've now privatized wealth (80% of it is in the hands of 3% of the population)...while socializing debt.

[Scott R. Brown]

We've now privatized wealth (80% of it is in the hands of 3% of the population)...while socializing debt.

It is no different in socialist countries. Throughout history, no matter what the form of government or economic system, the leaders and their cronies are the ones who benefit on the backs of the general population.

If capitalism isn't working it is because it isn't truly capitalism! Left alone it gives everyone equal opportunity to succeed. Those who work hard always do better than those who sit on their butts!

Unfortunately capitalism is never left alone.

With socialism people are encouraged to sit on their butts because they will get a "fair" share whether they work or not! That is why socialism doesn't work, there is no incentive to work when you can get something for nothing! When you depend upon the government to give you anything they have effectively enslaved you!

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

The guy in that Youtube clip is a complete idiot.

[bakxierboxer]

The guy in that Youtube clip is a complete idiot.

Kind of reminds me of Andrew Sullivan.... but far less "logical" and infinitely
whinier-sounding.

[Satori Science]

he's way off base in regards to at least one thing: the privatization of schools in New Orleans has been about the best thing that has happened to the public system in a long time:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/17/ma...Orleans-t.html

so to answer why they "had to" privatize them, I think it was more of a question of seizing an opportunity to restructure a failing system without having to go through the typical bureaucratic channels that would have probably derailed any major efforts at reform if it was simply business as usual

personally, I am always leery of someone who is "right" about things he has no direct experience with...

in that regard Hal may have been wrong, the article in the NY Times was pretty tragic. I suppose we are from Canada and assume that you would obviously be getting a good education in your public school system, we all did. You are the richest country in the world right, seems a little strange for your people to be so disenfranchised when it comes to public education?

[Satori Science]

The guy in that Youtube clip is a complete idiot.

In what ways did you think my Sihing was an idiot exactly? I put this up for the sake of discussion, cant say i found your comment particularly penetrating. Here how about this, comment on his statements, agree or disagree what ever you think

"real wages for working class people HAVE NOT changed since the early 1980's"

&/or

"the difference of capital needed to make up the balance of peoples increased consumption was funded by debt owned by major financial houses who are now defaulting because of their irresponsible/illegal banking practices"

go for it,

[Satori Science]

Kind of reminds me of Andrew Sullivan.... but far less "logical" and infinitely
whinier-sounding.

all canadians sound whinny, it comes from years of complaining about the winter, (at least in Saskatchewan)

[Satori Science]

It is no different in socialist countries. Throughout history, no matter what the form of government or economic system, the leaders and their cronies are the ones who benefit on the backs of the general population.

If capitalism isn't working it is because it isn't truly capitalism! Left alone it gives everyone equal opportunity to succeed. Those who work hard always do better than those who sit on their butts!

Unfortunately capitalism is never left alone.

With socialism people are encouraged to sit on their butts because they will get a "fair" share whether they work or not! That is why socialism doesn't work, there is no incentive to work when you can get something for nothing! When you depend upon the government to give you anything they have effectively enslaved you!

doesn't that seem like a pretty stale, antiquated argument, i kinda felt like i was sitting thru a political science class in the 1950's. Not really that useful, its like saying that neither one of two made up monolithic ideologies has worked in the past so humans are just out of options and should stop worrying about what will happen to their children.

Personally I'm not going for it, i care about what my world is going to look like for me and my kids in say 10 years and do my best to consciously affect it(in little ways every day). Here i'll make up a new system for you right now, how about a "Democratic Socialism" with actual "free markets" ware competition/innovation is mandated and enforced. As opposed to what we have now ware there is no longer even the illusion of freedom in the market ie "Monopoly Capitalism"

Democracy and Neo-Liberal capitalist greed are not the same thing

[Scott R. Brown]

Hi Robert, I don't have a lot of time at the moment, but here are a few thoughts: there were no laws broken in this current debacle. The lenders were following congressional mandates to basically give homes to those who can't afford it. That is why there are no calls for hearings on who to hold responsible. Congress would be holding hearings on themselves. Secondly, capitalism works fine if governments would stop acting like bad parents and allow people to fail. It is fear of failure/starving that motivates people to work. When people are protected from failure the take greater risks. Think of playing a computer game on GOD mode. When you have no fear of loss you play the game much more recklessly. If you have unlimited ammo you do not conserve it, you waste it. When we have something to lose we play more carefully and with more intelligence. If you risk more you stand to gain more, but you also risk losing more. In the end you become responsible for your own success or failure. This also has meaning in communist countries. I had a co-worker who defected from Poland when it was still communist. The entire economy was supported through black market free enterprise because the socialist system was so ineffective. While he was at work as a factory engineer he used company materials and company time and company tools to make furniture to trade on the black market. He said this was they only way to get the things you needed to surrive. The lesson here is, even when left to themselves in an ineffective economic system people will spontaneously organize themselves into a capitalistic system. Why do they do this? Because it works, it is natural and it follows the principles of Tao.