Tao of Wing Chun Do ?

[cjurakpt]

The Yale University Romanization for the Cantonese dialect teaches that there are 7 tones. Meaning that one word can have seven different meanings depending on the tone/musical note used.

which is why if everyone used it, no one would mistake "douh" (way) for "dou" (knife); doh! (Homer)

[LoneTiger108]

which is why if everyone used it, no one would mistake "douh" (way) for "dou" (knife); doh! (Homer)

I like to write it as it sounds. Even the Cantonese dictionaries I have are from the Hong Kong University Press and they actually write 'Do/Tao' as 'To' (with an arrow above the o) Another formal system which was first published in 1914.

'To' is also used for knife (with no markings) FWIW the markings relate to the tones Phil mentioned earlier. Doesn't the Yale version use a numbering system instead?

FYI this old 'missionary' dictionary is the only one where I've seen 'Wing Chun' written exactly like that (well Chun is Ch'un). Do others, including the Yale, write Wing as Ving? Chun as Tsun?

[Phil Redmond]

which is why if everyone used it, no one would mistake "douh" (way) for "dou" (knife); doh! (Homer)

I have to say that's a good one. Thanks for pointing out that the different tones have different spellings like the 'h' in douh makes it a low tone. Without that there would be lots of confusion.

[cjurakpt]

I have to say that's a good one. Thanks for pointing out that the different tones have different spellings like the 'h' in douh makes it a low tone. Without that there would be lots of confusion.

I think that the Yale system is awesome - it's totally phonetic and easy to use (like the "h" making the low tone); pinyin OTOH is a NIGHTMARE! after becoming functionally proficient w/Cantonese without ever having taken any formal classes (well, maybe one or two at a local community center, but that was w/5 year-olds, LOL), I tried taking Mandarin at China House in NYC and just never got out of the starting gate - totally flumuxed! FE, the teacher's name was Young Ho (I know...:), but it was pronounced something like like "yung her"; I mean, WTF?!?

unfortunately, my Cantonese has deteriorated significantly over the years, not having much chance to use it; probably the last nail in the coffin was some years ago when my current sifu, who is Cantonese but is trained at Princeton in classical Chinese literature, heard me say something and was like, "why do you speak like an illiterate peasant?"; ouch...

[cjurakpt]

I like to write it as it sounds. Even the Cantonese dictionaries I have are from the Hong Kong University Press and they actually write 'Do/Tao' as 'To' (with an arrow above the o) Another formal system which was first published in 1914.

'To' is also used for knife (with no markings) FWIW the markings relate to the tones Phil mentioned earlier. Doesn't the Yale version use a numbering system instead?

FYI this old 'missionary' dictionary is the only one where I've seen 'Wing Chun' written exactly like that (well Chun is Ch'un). Do others, including the Yale, write Wing as Ving? Chun as Tsun?

I am not familiar with the system you mention, unless it's Wade-Giles, which is the one with all the apostrophes; the only missionary dictionary I know of is the one by Janey Chen, called "A Practical Chinese / English Pronouncing Dictionary" and it uses Yale / Pinyin

as for the numbering, I think that is Pinyin; Yale doesn't use numbers, it has accent marks to denote rising / falling or same level, and the "h" to put it in the low register

I don't know how Yale writes "wing chun", I can go look it up at home though...

[Phil Redmond]

I like to write it as it sounds. Even the Cantonese dictionaries I have are from the Hong Kong University Press and they actually write 'Do/Tao' as 'To' (with an arrow above the o) Another formal system which was first published in 1914.

'To' is also used for knife (with no markings) FWIW the markings relate to the tones Phil mentioned earlier. Doesn't the Yale version use a numbering system instead?

FYI this old 'missionary' dictionary is the only one where I've seen 'Wing Chun' written exactly like that (well Chun is Ch'un). Do others, including the Yale, write Wing as Ving? Chun as Tsun?

Hong Kong was a British colony for years. The Brits used the term "water closet" (WC) for bathroom (washroom for my Canuck friends). I recently saw WC on bathroom door in Brooklyn. Go figure. Anyway Wing Chun people in HK didn't want to associate the initials WC for their beloved system so they changed the Romanization to 'VT'. Some linguists say that the Latin V and W are the same or similar. In English W can be written with two V's or two U's together and the 'Ts' sound is Ch. Leung Ting designated his branch with the initials, WT to distinguish his organization from others.
I've even heard that people say that Ving Tsun is not the same as Wing Chun or WT. Of course there are different approaches to the art but it's still Wing Cheun. When a native Cantonese reader sees the Chinese characters for Wing Chun they will pronounce it something like "Wing Chuen" regardless of what Romanization we Westerners use. They will NEVER pronounce the English "V" sound.

[CFT]

Hey Phil, I think I can explain the "V" in "V"ing Tsun. Don't know if you've noticed but there is no "V" sound in Cantonese (or Mandarin I think). If you ask a Hong Kong-er to pronounce the letter "V" they will say "We", e.g. "... tee-you-wee-double-you-ecks-why-e-zet".

So to them V=W. Problem solved!

[LoneTiger108]

Hong Kong was a British colony for years. The Brits used the term "water closet" (WC) for bathroom (washroom for my Canuck friends)...

I heard this before! The old 'tiolet trick' as we call it in 'common England'!!

I think you'll find that there are 'other' reasons for some people 'liking' the WC relationship too. I heard stories once that we are the only style that can maintain all our knowledge whilst IN a toilet cubicle!! This was also a place you may have ended up in if you wanted a challenge fight!?? Similar to an old 'phone box' scenario I once heard

I actually think that it was definitely decided by the HK practitioners to put 'signatures' to certain teachers ways but it may be more linked to the current dictionaries in use at the time imo. Like the change from Yip Man to Ip Man, the character Yip/Ip remains the same.

FWIW 'A Pocket Dictionary of Cantonese' was written by Roy T. Cowles ISBN 962-209-122-9

[Phil Redmond]

I heard this before! The old 'tiolet trick' as we call it in 'common England'!!

I think you'll find that there are 'other' reasons for some people 'liking' the WC relationship too. I heard stories once that we are the only style that can maintain all our knowledge whilst IN a toilet cubicle!! This was also a place you may have ended up in if you wanted a challenge fight!?? Similar to an old 'phone box' scenario I once heard

I actually think that it was definitely decided by the HK practitioners to put 'signatures' to certain teachers ways but it may be more linked to the current dictionaries in use at the time imo.

You could be right. I was just relaying what I heard in the 70's & 80's

. . . Like the change from Yip Man to Ip Man, the character Yip/Ip remains the same.

I've always wondered how that happened. It's Yip no matter how you write it. I could change the spelling of my name to Fhill and it would still be pronounced Phil.