Guangzhou Bak Mei and Hong Kong Bak Mei?

[5thBrother]

Hey guys,

what are the Stylist, Philosophical and Thoretical differences bewteen Guangzhou Bak Mei and Hong Kong Bak Mei? If any?

Are they same forms, skills, manner of execution etc bewteen the too branches?

anything distingushing or special bewteen the two?

what are the differences and / or similarities?

or maybe they are exactly the same thing?

Thanks

[Wong Ying Home]

You might want to try and contact SiFu Dave Steven who is from London, I am pretty sure he is Hong Kong based Bak Mei, but is currently in GuangZhuo researching some Bak Mei as well

[5thBrother]

Thanks for the info

[Yum Cha]

Gee, how disappointing, I've been waiting to hear what people think the differences are, but not much to be said.

Pak Mei as we know it today started in Guangzhou with Cheung Lai Cheun, and at the end of WWII, as part of the flight from the Red Guard, many Chinese fled to Hong Kong, including many kung fu masters, including Cheung Lai Cheun and many of his students. I know of a notable Student that went to Vietnam as well. Another went to South America, I believe. I'm told Malaysia too. And of course, a number went to Taiwan as they were fighting on that side at the time.

Sometime later, CLC and cohorts re-established Pak Mei in Hong Kong (or Kowloon, not sure exactly, same diff) but being well over 60, the next generation really took the reins.

Not being part of HK Pak Mei, its not appropriate to really say any more than that about them.

Back in Guangzhou, those that remained stepped up and kept the art alive. Being a "forbidden old way", they had to keep it quiet, and they dissolved into the darkness. Fortunately, Guangzhou is one of the toughest cities in China, and there is lots of darkness to dissolve into. One of CLC's students also started a branch in Futsan as well.

I know my SiGung was imprisoned by the Red Guard for 8 years. They couldn't really go public until the late 70's.

Mind you, this is historical, not stylistic. And just an overview of the lineages, which have now spread around the world.

Also, I am not addressing all the fabricated Pak Mei lineages coming from some American shonks.

So, I think its fair to say, Gunagzhou Pak Mei is a little less formal than HK.
Its certainly less commercial than HK.
I think you would probably find it impossible to actually locate Guangzhou Pak Mei if you were there, lets not forget, it is still a closed style.

VERY superficially speaking:

They have the same core forms.
They have different forms, notably those created by successive generations within their own lineages.
They have the same core principles, and they have stylistic differences.
The have better and worse within each branch.

If you know pak mei, you can recognise it in others. If you don't know it yourself, its impossible to tell good from bad, but its very entertaining to watch people try.

[5thBrother]

Thanks Yum Cha, very interesting and educational

[Olaf]

Also in HK there are different 'flavours' of pak mei. One of them is linked to the one in South America. (I assume you are talking about Lee Sai Kung that went there). I found these people very open and non commercial. I don't have any experience with the guanzhou pak mei so i can't add anything to that part of the discussion.

[cranky old man]

yum cha haveing a day off havent heard from you in awhile. oh theres two groupes in h.k. one is the ones you refer to and the others from my ci gung anf clc who are still not open . when ng nam ging died the younger mostly wanted to make money and went out on there own . the remainder are older teachers still use our old name as far as l know. it was in ko2wloon city the set up as a closed door . they didnt need to go commercial as the president then was wealthy or in business.

[Yum Cha]

Hey there my friend. Any good news on the rally car front?

Do you know anything about the Kumuntong (SP?), that being the Nationalist army of Chang Kai Check? I believe many in his officers corp were Pak Mei Pai as well, wondering if that had anything to do with Wam Po military academy.

[cranky old man]

that is correct theres still quite a few in hk and that are ex military. also a lot of the police in h.k. are pak mei . when my student went to the first big dinner he was taken around to little clubs to meet teachers from nam gings time. he said these guys knew how to fight they were tough old guys . no politics, signs out front or dinners ect just practice and teach their disciples.

[cranky old man]

we are still working on the supra replacing the rear cvs . theres a rally at the end of this monthin the rockies . but its been raining and cold for awhile now.

[Yum Cha]

Just beginning to get nice here. Not running the Renault?

[HardWork8]

Also in HK there are different 'flavours' of pak mei. One of them is linked to the one in South America. (I assume you are talking about Lee Sai Kung that went there). I found these people very open and non commercial. I don't have any experience with the guanzhou pak mei so i can't add anything to that part of the discussion.

Hello Olaf,

Would you happen to know where in South America one can find Pak Mei training?

[Olaf]

I'm not sure if they still teach in Surinam. I have heard of a pak mei club in Argentina but I don't know if they are good.

[Fung Ngan]

HardWork8,

The school at the Kong Ngi Tong Sang Society in Surinam is closed. A link to
the Pak Mei school in Argentina you can find on our site at the “links”. They
are from the Ha Hon Hung (Xia Hangxiong) lineage of Fatshan Pak Mei.

Fung Ngan
www.pakmeipai.nl

[Yum Cha]

HardWork8,

The school at the Kong Ngi Tong Sang Society in Surinam is closed. A link to
the Pak Mei school in Argentina you can find on our site at the “links”. They
are from the Ha Hon Hung (Xia Hangxiong) lineage of Fatshan Pak Mei.

Fung Ngan
www.pakmeipai.nl

Please correct me if I'm wrong (however I think not...)

Ha Hon Hung started in Guangzhou, as an early student of Cheung Lai Cheun, amongst the initial lot.

HHH left CLC and learned more from another teacher. The 'soft" forms of Yau Kung Mun.

HHH moved to HK at the end of the war and became Yau Kung Mun to avoid conflict with CLC and his Sons.

I believe much of what is called Futsan Pak Mei is from a student of HHH.