Of relevance to Wing Chun

[TenTigers]

that is because there is no internal/external. These are terms first coined in an article by Sun Lu-Tang, in which he catagorized Ying Yi Kuen, Bot Gua Jeurng, and TaiGik Kuen (XY,BG,TJQ) as being of the internal school and Shaolin and others being of the External School. Now these terms are thrown around by what I refer to as Internal MA Snobs, as a Holier than Thou term. ALL MA is internal.
It combines not only "core" or integrating the torso, but unifying the entire body-"From the ground, through the legs, governed by the waist, and expressed through the hands"coupled with relaxation of antagonistic muscle groups in order to most effectively recruit the protagonistic groups, and generate power. Reaxation is not flacid and limp ("we use only the ch'i to strike"-If your body moves, muscles are being used. period.) It simply means you are not "driving with the parking brake on."

Many of the isolated movements and "Ch'i-gung" method of performing certain sets, be it SLT or Sam Bo Gin, in my opinion (based on my thus far limited experience) do more to allow the student to develop the awareness of how his muscles and sketetal alignment are used, as well as breath and relaxation, allowing for the above to occur.

I have seen my teacher, with a very small movement, project a six-foot,four,350 lb high ranking BB backwards off his feet. I have felt his shock power that for lack of a better term, felt like my body was jolted. No, it's not some mysterious power, it's the years he put in training the above principles. Something few people in this day and age are willing to do.(which is why alot of "real, high level,Gung-Fu" will probably never be seen again-but that's for another thread altogether)

BennyVT's discription of ch'i is excellent, but that being said, I must admit, there are still things that defy description and boggle the mind. So for now, I guess the term,Ch'i still stands. Again, remember that Chinese Martial Scholars have terms and concepts that in a word, describe what can fill up volumes. Take the word, Sung. People write endlessly on this. Why? Because it is nearly is impossible to describe what can only be felt and understood within one's own body. This is why true Gung-Fu can only be taught through direct, transmission, hands-on, from Sifu to student. The word, Ch'i is a term that encompasses so much, from "simple" body mechanics, to the regulating of the body's internal organs and function.

I believe that it is a term used by "people who know," that rather than spending all the time explaining every sublte nuance, simply have found a term that expresses it in a word, and it is immediatley understood.
There are many things which can only be experienced and not conveyed through words to those who have not. The feeling of the adreneline response, or total fear, or the rush of skydiving,or an orgasm,or the taste of chocolate,or the birth of your own child, or losing a loved one,etc.
So....."ch'i."

[kung fu fighter]

that is because there is no internal/external. These are terms first coined in an article by Sun Lu-Tang, in which he catagorized Ying Yi Kuen, Bot Gua Jeurng, and TaiGik Kuen (XY,BG,TJQ) as being of the internal school and Shaolin and others being of the External School. Now these terms are thrown around by what I refer to as Internal MA Snobs, as a Holier than Thou term. ALL MA is internal.
It combines not only "core" or integrating the torso, but unifying the entire body-"From the ground, through the legs, governed by the waist, and expressed through the hands"coupled with relaxation of antagonistic muscle groups in order to most effectively recruit the protagonistic groups, and generate power. Reaxation is not flacid and limp ("we use only the ch'i to strike"-If your body moves, muscles are being used. period.) It simply means you are not "driving with the parking brake on."

I completely agree with the above, i would like to add that wing chun movements are initiated from the kwa area with leverage from the ground by rooting.

[bennyvt]

I really like that describtion from ten tigers. The problem is normally down to interpretation. I class myself more as an agnostic (don't know but am willing to find out) then a skeptic but I have many disscussions over the no muscle to move thing. I agree their are many things that we can't explain but when we can using modern terms that we know are correct I think we should.

[taai gihk yahn]

that is because there is no internal/external. These are terms first coined in an article by Sun Lu-Tang, in which he catagorized Ying Yi Kuen, Bot Gua Jeurng, and TaiGik Kuen (XY,BG,TJQ) as being of the internal school and Shaolin and others being of the External School. Now these terms are thrown around by what I refer to as Internal MA Snobs, as a Holier than Thou term. ALL MA is internal.

couldn't agree more! SLT's writing seems to have been a watershed event - actually, it's a good read and very informative, in terms of how SLT basically "spins" his whole perspective - basically salesmanship 101 - create the need, fulfill the need (Tim Cartmell has a good comment on this on his website as well); SLT was literati; like any nerdy geek, he probably was stressed out about how some burly ruffian w/ 1/10 of the degree of training he had could basically kick the sh1t out of a taiji guy w/20 yrs. experience; so he comes up w/the whole "internal" not only as a set of styles, but as a concept that should take you you whole life to get, hence the lack of immediate utility...and hence the HTT attitude being not only formed but stoked

It combines not only "core" or integrating the torso, but unifying the entire body-"From the ground, through the legs, governed by the waist, and expressed through the hands"coupled with relaxation of antagonistic muscle groups in order to most effectively recruit the protagonistic groups, and generate power. Reaxation is not flacid and limp ("we use only the ch'i to strike"-If your body moves, muscles are being used. period.) It simply means you are not "driving with the parking brake on."

exactly - if you move, muscles are working; the question is, HOW are they working? are agonist / antagonist force couples opposing each other, or firing / inhibiting in a coordinated manner? and are they firing in coordination with the elastic recoil of the non-contractile connective tissue structures that store and release both ground reaction and an opponent's in coming force? this concept is encapsulated by the taiji principle "yaht dung, chai dung" - "one moves, all moves";
I think that one reason that many peeps drive w/one foot on the gas and one on the break, is that this mode of operation gives one more proprioceptive feedback - meaning that for peeps who may not have the best sens eof where their body is in space, doing this creates more resistance / noise in the system as a means of extra feedback; especially because when you operate without doing this, in a way you don't feel much of anything, so you need very good body awareness to operate this way; otherwise, it can make you feel sort of insecure; over time, as body awareness improves, you can operate w/out creating extra resistance, and all of a sudden your technique gets better;
in a way, I think that "tension" based form training sorta corrects this by going in the opposite direction: if you really exaggerate the braking while having the gas going, you highlight what that feels like, and also give the body a lot of input to handle and organize around - if you move softly right after, you have sort of satisfied the system's desire for increased proprioceptive input, and while it's chewing on that bone, you are able to move in a more integrated manner without the self-interference...great example of how to "fool" the nervous system out of a detrimental habit...
also, this is why I think the notion of using "muscle" has gotten such a bad wrap - when you self-resist, you can really tell you are using muscle; when you get out of your own way, it seems like muscular effort is minimal to non-existent; to someone unaware of the realities of neuromuscular function, t certainly could seem like you were using any muscle!

Take the word, Sung. People write endlessly on this. Why? Because it is nearly is impossible to describe what can only be felt and understood within one's own body.

personally, I like the term "resilience" - actually, and I could be wrong, but I like to think of "sung" as one side of the coin, and "pang" as the other side - "sung" being the relatively receptive aspect (hence many people misunderstanding it as "relaxed" or "collapsed", taken to an extreme by some CMC peeps IMPE) and "pang" being the expressive one - you really need both - no "sung", can't have true "pang" and vice / versa; you see illustrated this in those "suck / spit" type moves (both in taiji and so. short hand) - some people are very good at one or the other, but you need both to have the whole picture
this also relates to the concepts of "gan" (root) and "hing" (lightness); "gan" and "sung" are tied together, as are "pang" and "hing", although you find each within the other as well; again, many peeps have one or the other, but at least for many TCMA styles, it is the combination of each that is desired;

[bakxierboxer]

that is because there is no internal/external.....

A really good presentation of things I've figured out and taught over the years.

The only "exception" I take with it is that first sentence.
"Believe it or not"...... "There was a time" when the Chinese folks were, uhm, "nationalistic" (in some cases to an extreme degree) and "internal" arts were those that were "native", while "external" arts were those that originated "anywhere else".
(kind of like the more modern NIH (Not Invented Here) Syndrome.
(this is occasionally noticed with the reference to some Shaolin/Buddhist styles as "Fut Gar")

[Ali. R]

I’m a true fan of my students because; they will always be my best teachers…

The sound track is a remix that I did on my home studio 40 track digital tascam board… A song that I wrote, sang and produced…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L77c9nCuNos


Ali Rahim.

[Graychuan]

I’m a true fan of my students because; they will always be my best teachers…

The sound track is a remix that I did on my home studio 40 track digital tascam board… A song that I wrote, sang and produced…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L77c9nCuNos


Ali Rahim.

Ive been too caught up in my own training to notice but that clip took me outside of it all. We do have a nice size group. Thanks for sharing this, mane!

[TenTigers]

nice chops! Kinda an Al Green vibe, funky and rockin at the same time.

[Ali. R]

nice chops! Kinda an Al Green vibe, funky and rockin at the same time.

I played that clip for my wife (the song is about her), now I’m sitting here eating fried green tomatoes, eggs, turkey bacon, home made biscuit and a hot cup of coffee , ‘Chris” knows what I’m talking about, he had breakfast with my family many of times… …

Life’s a wonderful thang…

Thanks and take care,


Ali Rahim.