US Open International Martial Arts Championship XII

[lkfmdc]

LMFAO @ at the Shawn Liu nut hugger club....

You may notice taht everyone that supports Shawn either wasn't active in the sport much past 1997, never had a team and/or was never involved in training fighters.

The claim that the "fighters chose the coach" is so funny I die laughing reading it. Let's see, since 1997 members of that team have included Cung Le, Rudi Ott, Albert Pope, Mike Norman, Chinu Le, Max Chen and Elan Schwarcz. None of them wanted Shawn Liu as coach.

Without exception the members of the national team have wanted either Cung or Jason to run the team.

I must note that in all these defenses of Shawn Liu they manage to never address key points

KEY POINT #1: Shawn Liu forced people to go to Alabama to train with him (or they would be removed from the national team). THIS IS A FACT.

While in Shawn's school, he had them wrestle on a mat with holes in it. Elan Schwarcz was severly injured, his knee torn, and he not only didn't get to fight in the worlds, he never fought again

KEY POINT #2: Shawn Liu has shown total disregard for people fighting in his shows. He has had amateurs fight multiple fights with no gear. He has had people with huge weight differences fight eachother. He has taken people who have never fought before and put them against seasoned, very experienced San Shou champions

KEY PONT #3: Shawn Liu promoted himself to being in charge of an organization that he created for himself. There was never a vote and it was in total contradiction to what he told EVERY COACH when they attended his event in 2001.

KEY POINT #4:
http://www.angelfire.com/sd2/kingofs...haicollege.jpg
http://www.angelfire.com/sd2/kingofsanda/zhao.jpg

Go find out what that is, who that is, then learn enough Chinese to contact him and ask him about Shawn Liu.

"I really don’t care how many languages you can speak"
LMFAO, if you spoke Chinese you'd know what peope really say about Shawn Liu. You'd learn that most of his stories are complete fabrications.

Of course, you didn't have to speak a word of Chinese to see what Guolin did. IE he punched Shawn in the nose! Why do you think Guolin punched Shawn? Ever bothered to look into that?

Michael Li, who is Xia Bahua's student, who was invited by Jeff Bolt to referee the daytime event in Orlando in 1997 happens to speak perfect English, so you could also ask him about Shawn Liu. After Shawn tried to explain the rules in 1997 in the morning during the tournament, Michael came onto the lei tai and said "no, that is not correct". He then told all teh competitors there to IGNORE Shawn

Why did Shawn Liu have to apologize to everyone that attended Xia BaHua's seminar?

Why hasn't any of the Big 6 teams attened any of Shawn's events in the past few years?

Gary, when you stop licking Shawn boots you could address any one of these issues.... but I won't hold my breath....

[lkfmdc]

It's amazing that anyone can believe the tall tales that Shawn tells

From his own web site at http://www.usaskf.org/oldsite/index2.html

As a Martial Artist and Fighter, Master Liu, with a 30-years undefeated career, has fought numerous professional fights in Chinese traditional bare-hand fighting, Muay Thai Boxing and modern Sanshou. He is one of the few undefeated professionals out of China

The stories just get bigger every year. 30 years? Undefeated? Numerous professional fights?

Can Shawn produce a single picture or video of a single match in China? How about an article?

You'd think in 30 years, undefeated, PROFESSIONAL fights, he'd have something from one of those many fights

Really Gene, he's shameless.... why do you let him continue his fraud?

[lkfmdc]

Aaron and Gary want people to believe that Shawn Liu is the respected leader of US San Shou.... well, all you have to do is look at Shawn's own web page.

Nov 07
http://shaolin-world.net/index.php?o...ults&Itemid=83

August 07
http://shaolin-world.net/index.php?o...ults&Itemid=83

May 07
http://shaolin-world.net/index.php?o...ults&Itemid=83

That is from Shawn's own site. Do those look like well attended, national level events? Where are the "big 6" team participation? If the fighters all love and respect Shawn, why haven't they attened any of his events?

Just more quesitons that Shawn's people will not address

[GreenCloudCLF]

Without exception the members of the national team have wanted either Cung or Jason to run the team.

I would love to coach, but I have a full-time job and don't think I am available.

Thanks for the offer.

[lkfmdc]

Look what someone just sent me! (and I thought X-Mas was more than a month away!)

http://www.chinwoo.com/2007tcl/workshops.htm

• Sanshou Ground Fighting - FRI, July 20: 5:30pm - 6:50pm
Sifu Gary Utterback assisted by Sifu Mike Barry. This seminar provides mat work on techniques that take Sanshou to the next level. It will include submissive Chin Na techniques for use with both boxing and eagle claw style gloves and defensive twist-pinching techniques for use with the finger free gloves. The techniques presented will enhance any full-contact program but will be applied to distinguish skill level only in Sanshou competition (not applied for tap-outs) events where they are allowed. It is invisioned that properly applied could result in an 8-count against an opponent. Some of the techniques were introduced and allowed for Sanshou competitors at the 2006 Tai Chi Legacy in wich boxing gloves were in use.

The nuts don't fall far from the tree apparently!
Where did Gary learn this "Sanshou Ground Fighting"?
"Submissive" fighting?

Has he ever tested it against judo, sambo, wrestling or BJJ? I guess not since he only "invisioned" (?) that they "could" work

Fortunately for society in general he only showed the ones that result in 8 counts and he didnt' show the really deadly ones that result in 10 counts!

LOL!

[GeneChing]

He helps pay the rent, which is more than I can say for you.

[lkfmdc]

He helps pay the rent, which is more than I can say for you.

Ah, so he buys some advertising, it always comes down to someting like that doesn't it?

But, come on, you've been to China, you speak, you know the story.....

[GeneChing]

We all have skeletons in our closets. He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone. Like I said, Shawn's always done alright by me and I've known him for years, even prior to my position here. My connection to Shawn has always been from a Shaolin perspective, not a sanshou one. There a closets full of Shaolin skeletons and sanshou skeletons. This is Halloween today after all.

[lkfmdc]

He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone.

Jesus walks into a small village and finds that they are about to stone a woman to death for allegations of adultery

Aghast, Jesus says "He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone"

As soon as Jesus says this, a tiny little womam picks up a HUGE STONE, runs toward the other woman, drops it on her, crushing her

To this Jesus said "sometimes Mom, you really annoy me"

Be well Gene

[GreenCloudCLF]

Jesus walks into a small village and finds that they are about to stone a woman to death for allegations of adultery

Aghast, Jesus says "He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone"

As soon as Jesus says this, a tiny little womam picks up a HUGE STONE, runs toward the other woman, drops it on her, crushing her

To this Jesus said "sometimes Mom, you really annoy me"

Be well Gene

Mary was born (at least in Catholic Dogma) without original sin (Immaculate Conception). That in no way is to mean she never sinned. In fact, her life was a lie. She led people to believe that Jesus was fathered by Joseph, so in fact every day after she became pregnant, she lied. She may have been one of the most prolific sinners in the Bible.

[taai gihk yahn]

Dave, here's a question: what authority legitimizes Liu as the go-to guy for running San Shou to the exclusion of others, or whatever organization he runs as the official body in charge of it?

and if Liu is such a poor coach and has alienated so many fighters, and if his tournaments are so poorly run and attended, what's to stop the "big 6" from forming their own equivalent of a San Shou NGB? I mean, it's not like it's an Olympic sport with a USOC / IOC recognized federation, is it? if all the top people (gyms / coaches / fighters) are not in Liu's camp, wouldn't any organization run by them easily eclipse his?

[ngokfei]

SCC703 only has 6 posts.
Guess this forum is of no use to him unless to serve as a promotional stage.

[brothernumber9]

Any U.S. representative team that wants to compete at the world wushu championships under the Iwuf (I think?), according to them has to be recognized by the official branch in the U.S. which is the USA WKF. So although the big san shou/san da teams in the country could collaborate and put together what would be a true representation of our best fighters. If it is no recognized by USAWKF, then they cannot represent U.S. at worlds.

[ngokfei]

Yep that is the case and problem. If you don't agree with the WKF you don't get a fair shake.

But then again its better this way. Professional Events that the "Big 6" attend have much better fighters than you'd ever face in these politcally charged IWUF events anyhow.

China itself has many Sanshou/Sanda events that have nothing to do with the IWUF.

[Mika]

Whoa! I had almost forgotten how hostile this environment can be at times. But, it brings voyeurs...

I haven't been here for ages, glad to be back! To get my rant on...

Anywho. I do remember Ross, and he's always been like that. I also remember that he is not at least known as a liar.

I lived in Mobile, AL, for five years. At the time, I taught Choy Lee Fut Kung Fu (have since taken up Qi Xing Tang Lang instead) at the University of South Alabama while studying there. I did not teach for the university, but our group got a space at HPELS to do our thing (just wanted to make that clear). So, I quickly got to know fellow martial artists and soon thereafter the big MA names in Mobile.

The first time I saw Shawn Liu teach I knew right off the bat he was nothing he said he was. Just dreadful. Nor was he teaching kung fu, it was some modern-based stuff. Modern wushu with some more realistic moves. But it was no authentic kung fu. I know that even better now having been introduced to authentic kungfu (a rare treat, as you all know, admit to it or not).

The second time I went to his gym (different place at this time, btw, they had moved) invited by this guy who I always liked and at the same time felt sorry for, Shawn introduced himself to me. The first thing he said was "I am a Shaolin monk", and I started smiling. He knew. He was embarrassed and quickly sat back down not being able to look at me again. However, I didn't make him lose face in front of everyone. It was between him and me.

Every time after that when we saw each other at Wal-Mart or where ever, he did not want to make a whole lot of eye contact with me.

Well, over the years I got to know some of the older Chinese people in Mobile, and they knew about Shawn's charade. Some of them were angry with him for telling tall tales, some just didn't care. But there were a lot white people too, who knew about his true nature.

The word was that he was a masseur and a gymnast in China. Ross's version of him being a former wushu practitioner would make sense in this context. Gymnastics and wushu have a lot in common, as we all know.

Be it how may, people like Shawn Liu should be exposed, or - in the case they are wrongfully accused - their case should be openly discussed. Hiding behind the lines and playing "I am friends with everyone" is just plain ignorant. Sure, Ross could surely pick his words more carefully, but in the end, it's better to speak out than leave it unsaid. I say Gene's method is just downright scary - provided he actually knows something. That kind of political correctness is just so viciously overplayed that it scares me. Then again, I could be mistaken about everything (along with Ross and some many others).

The world of MA is full of gullible fools. They should be protected. That's why political correctness is dangerous.

Of all the 1000's of people I have met, there are only about three or four I don't respect. They have all lied to other people in a massive way or have otherwise harmed or used other people.

Ross, you should note, however, that your aggressive style brings the focus from the actual matter to yourself and the way you represent yourself. Many of the posts in this thread - did not read them all, nor will I - testify to that. That is a little selfish on your part. I do understand how hard it can be to say your piece in a friendlier way, but with something of this magnitude, it would be worth it.

Like Ross, I hate liars and cheaters in MA. Honesty is a base value.

My 2 cents...