US Open International Martial Arts Championship XII

[GeneChing]

US Open International Martial Arts Championship XII featuring: Art of War VII Extreme Sanshou-K. Superstar World Fighting Championship and Shaolin Legacy Kungfu Show - 11-07-2008 (3 days)

Anyone here going? Aside from me?

[lkfmdc]

The official motto of any event done by Shawn Liu

"fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me"

Many people should be shamed to keep going back for more of the same serving of turd pie

[GeneChing]

I'm guessing that was '97 or '98. I was still working for WLE back then and ran a table. He was trying to stage a bare knuckle and it got shut down. Nevertheless, he hosted Shi Deyang, and it was great to hang out with him.

This year, he plans to have Shi Deyang and my own master, Shi Decheng. A gaggle of disciples are gathering, which will surely be amusing.

[GreenCloudCLF]

The official motto of any event done by Shawn Liu

"fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me"

Many people should be shamed to keep going back for more of the same serving of turd pie

I actually enjoy turd pie with a nice espresso.

[lkfmdc]

I'm guessing that was '97 or '98. I was still working for WLE back then and ran a table. He was trying to stage a bare knuckle and it got shut down.

Shawn Liu has absolutely NO REGARD for the people who fight in his events, nor for the people who were forced to "train under him" by the USA WKF. Shameless....

[GeneChing]

Don't worry, lkfmdc. You don't have to go just because I'm going. I'll tell Shawn. I'm sure you'll be missed.

[lkfmdc]

Shame shame Gene Ching

Anyone who has taken a basic coaching course in ANY sport knows that coaching rule #1 is "provide a safe practice" which includes a safe facility

A rotten, old mat with HOLES in it is not a safe mat, especially when an athlete gets his foot stuck in a hole and tears ligaments in his knee!

Of course, you could begin by questioning why people who were part of winning teams to begin with were FORCED to go to Shawn's place where there was virtually no structrured training and nothing of value going on

OR we could question why a guy who never produced a single ranked San Shou/San Da figher was put in charge of the team to begin with

Now, as far as his events, ILLEGAL, UNINSURED, gross mismatches, pros vs amateurs, people promised money that was never paid, people whose coaches ere thrown out of the building during their match for simply pointing out that Shawn was wrong

Do we really need to go there Gene?

Shawn, who thinks all white people are stupid, that we couldn't possibly speak CHinese, and that no one is smart enough to go to China, talk to real coaches and find out the truth about him....

YUP, I'll stick with shameless

[GeneChing]

You want to go there or you wouldn't keep replying. Feel free to keep replying. That's what the forum is for.

I'm still going to his event and like always, I look forward to seeing anyone from the forum.

[lkfmdc]

You want to go there or you wouldn't keep replying. Feel free to keep replying. That's what the forum is for.

I'm still going to his event and like always, I look forward to seeing anyone from the forum.

Gene you SHOULD go

1. your in the media and events should get media coverage, the light of day is good for events

2. there's going to be a gaggle of shaolin monks, so have a zen old time

[GeneChing]

Truth be told, whenever I board an airplane for an event, it's strictly business.

Only the local stuff is complimentary.

And there's only two monks on the card, Deyang and Decheng, which is several shy of a gaggle. We'll see if they show. You'll get to read about it if they do. And since Decheng is my master, you'll surely get to read about it if they don't.

[scc703]

I am embarrassed for you, IKFMDC. Everyone in the group knows who you are and we know your background. However, we choose not to bash you since we promote Harmony and Sportsmanship. We do understand that you have strong emotional PERSONAL feelings however those that are not as familiar with your background may misconstrue your personal opinions for fact. I have worked with Master Shawn Liu for a long time and was a chief organizer for the 2001 event in Atlanta (which you attended). We all know how great this event turned out to be, we know what happened to you there, and the resulting bans from future events. Again we promote Harmony and Sportsmanship. We can’t be responsible for individuals actions as only the individual themselves can control their own actions.
For all of you that may not be so versed on Master Liu and the US Open International Martial Arts Tournaments, I would like to provide you with a few details:

You may find some amazing documentaries on Master Liu as CCTV (largest Network in China) has filmed 6 of them. Some of them include: “Shawn Liu in America”, “Legend of Monk “Iron Leg”, and “Founding Father of Sanshou”. CCTV has also attended ALL of Master Liu’s US Open Tournaments and they will be there for the upcoming event on Nov. 7th, 8th, and 9th. You can also search Youtube and find some great videos on Master Liu and Sanshou.

As I mentioned before I was chief coordinator for the 2001 event. For this event we had over 150 competitors. This included the Italian Team, Poland Team, Teams from Canada, and Puerto Rico (to name a few). Our K. Superstar fights included: Cung Le, Rudy Ott, and Max Chen (to name a few).

Some of the attendees included: Anthony Goh, Chris Facente, Gary Utterback, Martha Burr (executive editor of Pacific Rim Publishing and Products), Master Malee Khow, was covered by Black Belt Magazine, and many, many more.

This event was well organized, we had the largest crowd ever at the Superstar fights, and I was personally in awe at the opportunities that I had to meet Masters from all over the World.

I hold the upmost respect and trust for Master Liu. I know that this year’s event will be a grand event as we have confirmed many well-known fighters, participants, Seminar Masters, and all of our traditional Sanshou group will be in attendance to show their support for Master Liu. I encourage you all to go to www.artofwarsanshou.com to view details or go to www.liuinstitute.com for background information as well as search CCTV and Youtube for documentaries. There are many “sound” and “factual” sources out there that back Master Liu and what he stands for.

[lkfmdc]

You asked for it....

Shawn Liu arrived in the US a complete unknown. He was shown around the country by Sifu Tai Yim, a very respected traditional teacher, as a courtesy. At that time, Shawn Liu was introduced as a WUSHU COACH.

He never been able to acquire a full time position in China and thus had come to the US seeking opportunity. At no time was there ever any mention of the Shaolin temple or that Shawn Liu was a monk. Did Shawn Liu wake up one day and suddenly "remember" he had spent his entire life at the temple?

Let’s not forget history whenever we mention the Shaolin temple. It was virtually empty for most of the 20th century. In the 1980’s, after Jet Li made his famous “Shaolin Temple” film, he also did a documentary on Shaolin. At the time of that film, there were FOUR monks living in the monastery. Of course, in recent years Shaolin has become a big money making operation for the Chinese government, with details and history being played fast and loose. The Chinese government for example released a set of video tapes in the early 1990's called "a course in Shaolin". It is a compilation of several teachers, some not even strictly Shaolin. Thus, it does NOT represent the actual teaching in Shaolin or the teaching of one teacher. Is it mere coincidence that Shawn Liu first sold this set of tapes in the US in the early 1990's? It also happened to be exactly what he taught when he first arrived here? Don’t you find that the least bit interesting?

Perhaps Shawn Liu’s fantastical claims about being a Shaolin monk are the reason two other Shaolin monks have BOTH punched him in the face at major events. The most recent being a normally very cool and very well liked Shi Guolin, who bloodied Liu’s nose at Jimmy Wong's event.

Shawn Liu also took a severe beating in China recently which he tried to spin in his favor and for sympathy. However, the real facts behind that incident remain obscured.

Even as a contemporary wushu coach, Shawn Liu left a lot to be desired. During a competition in Houston, students of Jeff Bolt had to speak to him because his scores were “all over the place”.

Shawn Liu then performed what was supposed to be Chen Taijiquan at the masters’ demo. People who had actually practiced legitimate Chen Taijiquan report the performance was so bad it was embarrassing.

Shawn Liu first became "infamous" when he acted as Chinese Wushu Association president Xia Bahua's translator. Xia Bahua discovered to his horror that Shawn Liu was not translating what he was saying and was in fact pushing his own agenda. Professor Xia complained through the Chinese Wushu Association. This forced USA WKF president Anthony Goh to demand Shawn Liu issue a formal apology.

The same day, during the same lecture, Shawn Liu actually punched himself in the face and broke his glasses while trying to demonstrate a basic technique. For years, people have questioned Shawn Liu's skill level. He claims to have been a fighting champion. Of course, he claims to have done those fights while at Shaolin temple and we've already noticed that for years he never mentioned Shaolin while here in the US? And no one can find any record, pictures, movies etc of these matches? Strange don't you think?

A former national San Shou coach said of Shawn Liu, "he's a nice guy from the same province as me." but when asked about his skills and accomplishments as a fighter? The coach said he had no comment.

Shawn Liu has a habit of claiming other people's students as his own. A number of people he never trained at all he claims as his students. His complete inability to run an effective practice has been the source of jokes among the US team for years. A former member of the national team has noted that Shawn Liu is virtually clueless working the corner at events. The real truth of course is that Shawn Liu is "US coach" in name only, Jason Yee and Cung Le have been the driving forces in the actual training, as almost all of the team members have been their students anyway.

Shawn Liu has set up an institute in the United States but his students have not made a dent in the US San Shou community. Even at his own event, the US Open, they lose consistently to other teams, even non "Big 6" people. Why is a man who has never produced a champion the US team coach?

As a promoter, Shawn Liu has consistently made promises he could not deliver on. He has promoted several events which were dismal failures, only being bailed out by the good will of people like Houston's Jeff Bolt. Shawn Liu always promises to deliver international fighters, he has consistently failed to do so. At the US Open in 2001, Shawn Liu bragged he had fighters from "France, Iran, Egypt, and Trinidad" to one of the press people. He didn't mention that these fighters were members of the New York Team! (France = Nizar Balghitti, Iran = Yousef Taghizadeh, Egypt = Ahmen Mohammed, Trinidad = Richard Acosta).

The recent “K Super Star” events that Shawn Liu has run have similarly been poorly advertised, poorly run and poorly attended. With each show he gets less support from the big name fighters and traditional "Big 6" teams. If Shawn Liu had not conspired with USA WKF president Anthony Goh to have the US national team trials at his most recent event, NONE of the major programs would have attended at all. This was demonstrated by the fact that so-called “national” tournament and super fights at this event received NO support from the established programs.

Why put US San Shou in the hands of an individual who has shown a complete inability to even run an event? The so-called “national” tournament was in reality local, poorly organized, and poorly attended. It had 30 competitors, less than the local tournament NYKK did in New York in their gym! It was a pathetic attempted when compared to the Arnold Classic which had over 150 competitors including representatives of all of the original “Big 6”.

On to even more important issues, is Shawn Liu dishonest? A few people think so. It is well known that the "King of San Da" pro circuit in China pays good money to each team that comes to it's special "China vs the world" cards. Shawn Liu brought a US team, did he give the fighter's the money? Oh, did we mention that he forgot to tell a few of the US fighters that they were fighting with knees? That one "found out" the first time he got kneed?

Have the US team trials been conducted dishonestly? Maybe. We know that a major coach had to scream at the top of his lungs at Shawn Liu when a multi time national champion was going to be over looked so Shawn could put a "favorite" who had never held a title on the team instead. This isn't widely known, but a few do know about it.

A few people have said that Shawn Liu "suggested" the outcome of a few San Shou matches in the past. That's when he isn't head judge and can't simply wave off a decision ala IWUF fascist rules. In 1997 all FIVE judges had black winning in the finals of the United World event, Shawn switched it to red. Was it a coincidence that red knew Shawn? Maybe? Maybe not.

Back to more practical matters. Has Shawn Liu ever had enough influence to help out a US Team member when the IWUF was trying to do them wrong? The answer is NO. Not when Cung Le was wrongly disqualified in Italy. Not when Ray Neves was lied to and then dropped at the last worlds. Not when Albert Pope was robbed at the World Cup. He isn't a great trainer, hasn't produced any national champions of his own, and has no influence with the IWUF. Thank god he's Chinese we guess?

Has Shawn Liu gone power mad lately? It's an interesting subject to debate. He refused to attend either the US Wushu Union or the Arnold Classic because he didn't get "a special invitation". He's more special than the rest of us, remember that please. Shawn Liu arranged for the USA WKF to drop San Shou and for the team trials to be held at his event. Shawn Liu also originally scheduled his event in conflict with Cung Le’s

At this most recent event, when a coach of one of the super fight participants argued with him, Shawn Liu’s answer was to have security remove him from the building. Did we mention that the coach in question was correct, and that Shawn had acted against the terms of a contract IN WRITING. Who does Shawn Liu think he is? A tyrant?

Have we mentioned that Shawn Liu has not paid many of the coaches and athletes the money he has promised them for their participation in his events?

Finally, let us never forget that at the 2001 US Open in Atlanta, Shawn Liu told the coaches of the "Big 6" San Shou teams that the new federation was for them and that he'd only act as an “advisor”. However, he appointed himself president and CEO. Did anyone vote for him? Was there a vote? The rest of the new board suspiciously doesn't have a single member of the US San Shou community on it either. Could be he forgot about them? Maybe.

[lkfmdc]

From Ruid Ott, RE Shawn Liu

Love and Hate
By IKF World Champion and KSD Fighter of the Year Rudi Ott

What’s love got to do with it? Everything. We have love for our art, love for competition, and love for living in the present and being at our best. Love is what makes us spend many hours at smelly gyms and starve ourselves to near unconsciousness. Love gets us through aches and pains, bumps and bruises. Love picks us off the matt and gives us energy to continue to fight, win or lose. Love is the core of our being, our very existence. Love is why I'm writing this letter, and I don’t want my love to turn into hate.

As a fighter I have been very fortunate in the fact that the love growing inside me manifested itself into the drive and desire to surpass my potential and conquer my limitations. As a coach, I hope that the same internal mechanism transforms itself into a greater good, serving others. I have always felt coaching fighters is more strenuous than fighting itself. Not only do you live through your students, but also they are a direct reflection of you. If you have done your job right, they become prepared for any obstacle they might encounter. Day to day you work on them physically and mentally and hope you have given them your best. So what happens when those who put in the hard work, and achieve the desired goal, do not obtain the result they deserve? The answer...hate.

Hate seems to be the culprit behind the conflict at the recent USAWKF US National SanShou Team Selection on June 28th in Atlanta, GA. For a little history, I have been a team member in 1997, 1999, and 2001, and my coach Cung Le in 1995, 1997, and 1999. In each of those years we have also had a mix of teammates and students on the team. For Sanshou in the US, the US Team has been a benchmark for top fighters. The head coach of the US Team has always been Shawn Liu, and (if USAWKF has its way) he probably will be head coach for a long time to come. For years we (the SanShou community) have maintained a good relationship with Shawn Liu, but have never been happy with USAWKF's inability to support their athletes in anyway shape or form. Unfortunately, our relationship with Shawn Liu has since deteriorated, and he has sided with the USAWKF.

SanShou has come along way in recent years. This is a credit to the top six teams in the country, known as the “Big 6”, which comprises fighters from New York, Boston, Ohio, Oakland, Houston, and San Jose. The Big 6 has been producing top quality fighters, year in and year out. It has also grown in notoriety because of its top fighter Cung Le and the exposure he has brought to the sport. Shawn Liu also did a lot for the sport early on. Liu was first to organize SanShou tournaments and bring teams from China to compete with American athletes, which raised the bar for our athletes and set a barometer for our skills. I myself competed against a fighter from the Chinese military team in my first tournament. There is no doubt about his contribution, and for that I am grateful.

However, Shawn Liu has also been ineffective in pushing SanShou to the main stream. He has been mired in outdated principles and fighting formats, which was reflected at this year’s Team Trials. To put it bluntly, the trials were a disaster.

It started with the date being put too close to Cung Le's Born to Fight Tournament, to which all the top teams and fighters had already committed. It continued when the New York team was banned from the trials just for voicing opposition. It culminated on the day of the event. In all the years that team trials have existed, this year had the lowest participation because only the teams that wanted to deal with all the politics were willing to make the trip.

This is when hate began to rear its ugly head and direct itself at the UsH Fight Team. It is common knowledge that Cung Le and I have denounced the leadership of the USAWKF (Anthony Goh) for some time. Other teams have done the same and boycotted their events, while others tried to be diplomatic for the sake of their athletes. Well, our opposition was soon thrown back into our faces. There are only 5 positions allowed for each team out of 11 weight categories, but six fighters won their division in the recent trials. Albert Pope at 60kg, Mike Norman at 65kg, Max Chen at 70kg, Russ Middleton at 80kg, James Fanshier at 85kg and Patrick Berry at 90kg. There was a dilemma in choosing which five fighters make the team. The team must be decided by an established set of criteria. Albert, Mike, and Max have all been previous team members, so they have secured their positions. Russ Middleton won this year’s USAWKF Nationals, so he would be the next likely candidate. It came down to James Fanshier and Patrick Barry.

James has a USAWKF National title from 2000, when he beat Russ Middleton. Patrick Berry lost this year’s National to Brian Madigan, whom James recently beat in the finals of the Team Trials. In summary, James beat the fighter to whom Patrick lost and has a title from the Team’s organization. Thus, by logic, James should be the one selected, right? Wrong! Patrick was chosen instead of James. Oh, did I forget to mention that James is a member of the UsH Fight Team and that Patrick is a student of Shawn Liu? Hmmmm.

Anyone using the existing criteria would have selected James, but the powers that be in the USAWKF (Anthony Goh and Shawn Liu) chose to override the selection process that they themselves established. The criteria are as follows, in order of importance:

1. US Team fighter who has placed in at least one of the previous 3 World Championships
2. Fighter that has been on US Team for 2 consecutive terms.
3. Former US Team Member
4. Former USAWKF National Champion (a title that James Fanshier held)
5. Former USASKF Title winner (made for Patrick Berry & Shawn Liu's own organization)
6. Former US Open Title winner

I know many of you who are reading this are thinking that I, Rudi Ott, am biased. Well yes I am, and I can’t help being biased. I gave up my position on the team so that James could have a real chance at making it. If I claimed my spot, it would be moot for James or Patrick. It is very sad that we have all come to this. I wish we had a united team that was ready to take on the world. But, politics and pride have tarnished another form of artistic expression and lowered the standards of these artists. It would help if we had an organization that was truly interested in the growth of our sport and supported our athletes. But we don’t, so we must rely on ourselves if we are ever going to make something great of SanShou. I know we all have our own agendas, and we all want our team to be the best. But together, the competition will make us greater as long as we are playing on the same field. Our common denominator is the love we share for the art under which we chose to compete, and that is greater than the hate any one person or organization can hold over us. Peace....

UsH! (Unity Starts Here)
Rudi Ott

[lkfmdc]

Shawn Liu’s USASKF National Tournament and USAWKF team trials
Reported by various participants at the event

Shawn Liu just barely managed to pull off his event. There was certainly nothing “national” about it. It was local, poorly organized, and poorly attended. The so-called “national” tournament competition had around 30 competitors, and NONE from the established programs. Compare that to the Arnold Classic which had over 150 competitors including representatives of all of the original “Big 6”.

In fact, if the event hadn't conspired with Anthony Goh to acquired the USA WKF team trials (despite opposition by ALL the US teams) it is doubtful anyone would have attended at all. The coaches had protested prior, resented Anthony Goh’s final decision, and the result was a total lack of support for all the other aspects of the event.

Considering the behavior of Shawn Liu in recent years, many also worried when they delayed announcing the official team. In the past, it had been done at the site. Apparently, fears were completely justified. The team selected by the USA WKF apparently includes someone who should NOT have been selected based upon the very criteria they themselves composed and put up on their web site! Is it a coincidence that the unqualified person is a student of Shawn Liu?

We really hope that no one who won this event considers themselves “national champions”. They are in for a very unfortunate reality check when they step onto a Lei Tai or into a ring with the real national champions.

Once again, the so-called “Professional fights” Shawn Liu offers left a lot to be desired. Putting amateurs with little experience in no gear so they look “professional” and offering up titles to them is exactly what is wrong with the sport of Kickboxing and San Shou. Faced with a total lack of participation from the traditional “Big 6” programs, this card featured two matches in which people who had never fought San Shou faced experienced champions from Brazil among other amusing things! Additionally, had the Brazilian team not shown up there would have only been TWO fights.

[lkfmdc]

Simply put, Shawn Liu is a complete and total FRAUD

He tried first to be a wushu coach
THen tried to teach Chen Tai Chi
Then he tried to be a SHaolin Monk

He found San Shou because at the time there weren't many coaches and he convinced Anthony Goh to let him control it

He has never trained a single champion, nor a student who has even been able to beat a "big 6" fighter. His record vs my guys is 0-9.... 5 KO's

I have also mentioned that when I was in China, everyone was talking about what a joke he was... anyone who has ever seen him at a world championship knows that no one in China takes him seriously, he is a CLOWN