Great lion company freestanding dummy

[Toby]

yeah, I am probably gonna replace them with round pipe legs.

Even with shoes on sweeping/reaping would hurt your lower leg with the square profile. Welding together a round-legged replacement wouldn't be hard, and even if you outsourced it it shouldn't cost much.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Even with shoes on sweeping/reaping would hurt your lower leg with the square profile. Welding together a round-legged replacement wouldn't be hard, and even if you outsourced it it shouldn't cost much.

I am a qualified ASME welder, I can do that myself.
I remember that at one point I contemplated making the whole dummy out of steel !
That's how I roll baby !!

[CFT]

I am a qualified ASME welder, I can do that myself.
I remember that at one point I contemplated making the whole dummy out of steel !
That's how I roll baby !!

Oooo ... I'm told that 'chisauking' from this forum had a steel (or was it chrome?) dummy in his pub.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Oooo ... I'm told that 'chisauking' from this forum had a steel (or was it chrome?) dummy in his pub.

Like I said, I contemplated one, more so when I cracked my last home made one, the issue was the padding.
I may still make one....

[Ragnor]

Ragnor, how much of a beginner are you? I wanted a dummy as soon as I started learning the form. You can use it right from the start too if you just want to work it freestyle. But honestly, if you're a complete beginner there's no rush. It might be worth making one yourself. All you need by way of tools is an auger bit and a hand brace (or I used a Forstner bit with a hand drill). Then, a couple of chisels and a hammer were honestly very effective (I made square/rectangular holes in my trunk to prevent the arms/leg twisting). You get a few blisters but that's part of it. My frame has mortice/tenon joints and a just a few screws and bolts. My timber was from a scrapyard and my trunk was free from a well-seasoned dead tree in the country (you can also pick up trunks cheaply from a rural lumberyard). It's surprisingly easy to do and very cheap even factoring in the cost of tools (if you don't already have them). The only cost is your time. The satisfaction of doing it yourself is very high though.

I've only been learning around 6 months so I'm not even starting on the form yet. The initial reason I wanted it is for is related to the walls as I can't hang a wall bag anywhere in my flat and it was suggested that I could get a dummy and use a bag on this (as well as learning correct shapes and movement for my basic combinations)

I was with you on the building yourself right up to "auger" and then i had no idea what you were talking about!! I'm not sure I could build my own.

[Toby]

I've only been learning around 6 months so I'm not even starting on the form yet. The initial reason I wanted it is for is related to the walls as I can't hang a wall bag anywhere in my flat and it was suggested that I could get a dummy and use a bag on this (as well as learning correct shapes and movement for my basic combinations)

You can get a heavy bag and a free-standing stand. I prefer that to hanging it off a roof. It'll vibrate the whole structure that it's attached to and it'll potentially cause damage. An average free-standing heavy bag should only cost maybe 100GBP.

I was with you on the building yourself right up to "auger" and then i had no idea what you were talking about!! I'm not sure I could build my own.

Auger bit picture attached. Basically a big drill bit designed especially to drill big, long holes in wood. You drive it with a hand brace (the old-school hand drills). You could think of it as a training exercise, since it'd use significant energy to drill 6 holes through a hardwood trunk. Forstner bits (like I used) are designed more for drilling shallower holes but I took my time and used an extension bar and drilled each of my holes through from each side meeting in the middle. My trunk is 11" diameter so it is a bit bigger than average (standard size is 9" IIRC). After drilling a hole (e.g. mine were 1" diameter) you can choose to square off the holes with a chisel to fit the arms in (like a massive mortise/tenon joint) or just do round arms (in which case they'll spin unless you fix them some other way - easy enough to do).

I am a qualified ASME welder, I can do that myself.
I remember that at one point I contemplated making the whole dummy out of steel !
That's how I roll baby !!

You read my mind. I've got a bunch of bits and pieces and drawn up some sketches to make a steel one. I've got industrial springs and some tubing for arms and legs. I know of industrial pipe suppliers near me who sell secondhand pipe of large enough diameter for cheap. I want a sprung frame and sprung arms and leg (and maybe sprung knee, not sure). The industrial springs provide good action on my prototype arms. We've got some commercial spring arms at the school on one dummy and I really like them. For padding, initially I was going to use dense EVA foam although I'd prefer custom leather filled pads. There are suppliers nearby who'll cut or extrude foam in any shape you like for suprisingly little. I've also got some heavy roller bearings (about 3" diameter, with each bearing about 1/3-1/2") to maybe attach the dummy to the frame in conjunction with old scooter shock absorbers to provide horizontal action.

I've also seen wood trunks on top of fixed car springs so the trunk moves around like the old blow-up punching bags you used as a kid. I prefer the idea of horizontally moving dummy so that's why I'd like the sprung frame/dummy method.

I'm kind of handy and a bit of an inventor. Now all I need to do is learn to weld .

[Toby]

I found an old picture of my dummy on my old harddrive. Basically I took measurements off my favourite dummy at the school. After a while I preferred it higher so it's on bricks now. If I did it again I'd make the frame wider since I occasionally kick the side stands of the frame. That little looking thing weighs at least 350lb. There are 400lb of weight inside the window behind and it feels heavier than that. I can lift one side at a time alone, I really struggle getting the whole thing off the ground. I need to replace the leg since I broke the knee joint once, screwed it up again and I've now mostly broken it again although it's still holding. The frame uprights are 4"x4", the frame cross beams are ~3"x1" (actually 70mm x 30mm). The frame feet are 2"x4". The arms are about 1 1/2" to 2 1/2" diameter (from memory). The leg is about 2 1/2" to 3 1/2" (from memory, and a bit ovalised near the "thigh"). The hose clamps help prevent cracking, and so does a hole drilled in the top that I keep topped up with linseed oil (and thinners, depending on the season). It's pretty stable now but when I first made the dummy the holes must've dried out the centre a bit. Surprising, since it was a very weathered trunk. It's treated with organic, non-toxic decking oil. You've gotta be careful what you put on it if you're going to be spending a lot of time banging it around with your hands.

Oh, I forgot some other tools I used - power sander (all over) and power carver (to rough shape the arms and leg). You could do it with hand tools (like a spokeshave or plane or power planer). Whatever you're comfortable with. My power sander was a random orbital attachment for my 4" angle grinder. A variable sander/polisher with a soft pad would've probably been easier. And a power planer for the rough shaping.

[Toby]

If you wanted to do it easier you could make a PVC trunk and buy commercial arms/leg. Sounds like sanjuro_ronin had a PVC trunk (unless the one he cracked was a hardwood trunk - or steel ). Ironfist who used to be active on the main and training fora used to have plans for a PVC dummy. If you want wood or PVC and you're not very inventive you'll find plans all over the internet you can follow. Otherwise do what I did and measure your favourite and replicate that. Basically you want the upper arms to match your shoulders, lower arm about your dan tien and leg your leg. I think that's right on all counts. It's not essential anyway - a taller dummy is like training with taller people, smaller with smaller people. E.g. if you're small you might like a tall dummy since you'll mostly be fighting people bigger than you, it's up to you. With mine like I said I started with it smaller than it is now (raised on bricks). I liked the smaller dummy when I started but mostly I train with bigger people these days. I'm not small myself but my teacher has a couple of inches and ~75lb on me and most other guys I train with have 20-50lb on me. A guy from forumland I met yesterday had 2" and 80lb advantage. Maybe I need to make it bigger still.

[sanjuro_ronin]

You read my mind. I've got a bunch of bits and pieces and drawn up some sketches to make a steel one. I've got industrial springs and some tubing for arms and legs. I know of industrial pipe suppliers near me who sell secondhand pipe of large enough diameter for cheap. I want a sprung frame and sprung arms and leg (and maybe sprung knee, not sure). The industrial springs provide good action on my prototype arms. We've got some commercial spring arms at the school on one dummy and I really like them. For padding, initially I was going to use dense EVA foam although I'd prefer custom leather filled pads. There are suppliers nearby who'll cut or extrude foam in any shape you like for suprisingly little. I've also got some heavy roller bearings (about 3" diameter, with each bearing about 1/3-1/2") to maybe attach the dummy to the frame in conjunction with old scooter shock absorbers to provide horizontal action.

I've also seen wood trunks on top of fixed car springs so the trunk moves around like the old blow-up punching bags you used as a kid. I prefer the idea of horizontally moving dummy so that's why I'd like the sprung frame/dummy method.

I'm kind of handy and a bit of an inventor. Now all I need to do is learn to weld .

I have heard mixed things about spring arms so I would suggest you make it so you can have both options.
Easily done by using a thread female coupling welded to the body and the arms ending in a male thread.
If you are gonna spring the leg, make it only under the "knee".

[Toby]

Like I said I really like the commercial spring arms on a dummy at the school. But there's no spring leg so yeah, I'm unsure about that. I already decided I wanted removable/interchangeable limbs (hadn't thought about threads though - good idea). The problem is I'd want the springs' central bending axes as close as possible to the trunk (so there's as much limb as possible to work with). So with threads and springs I'd be trying to fit a lot into as small a length as possible. I though about cutting a larger hole and having the limb/trunk attachment "inside" the trunk in a sunken welded-in recess. Then you could have the spring with one end aligned with the trunk's surface (or maybe slightly inside). Best springs I found were the C780's on this link (if it works). Even then they could be stronger ... they're just enough I reckon. They're very stiff in compression, but with a fixed end and a ~1.5' long piece of 1.5" diameter steel tube they bend easier than I expected.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Like I said I really like the commercial spring arms on a dummy at the school. But there's no spring leg so yeah, I'm unsure about that. I already decided I wanted removable/interchangeable limbs (hadn't thought about threads though - good idea). The problem is I'd want the springs' central bending axes as close as possible to the trunk (so there's as much limb as possible to work with). So with threads and springs I'd be trying to fit a lot into as small a length as possible. I though about cutting a larger hole and having the limb/trunk attachment "inside" the trunk in a sunken welded-in recess. Then you could have the spring with one end aligned with the trunk's surface (or maybe slightly inside). Best springs I found were the C780's on this link (if it works). Even then they could be stronger ... they're just enough I reckon. They're very stiff in compression, but with a fixed end and a ~1.5' long piece of 1.5" diameter steel tube they bend easier than I expected.

If you are going with 4" pipe, we are still talking about a steel dummy right?, you can put the arms coming off the sides or even behind the body, so you cna have as much meat as you want on them before you get to the thread.
ex:

http://www.wingchundummys.com/Product_93.html

[sanjuro_ronin]

I prefer solid arms to spring loaded ones unless I am doing something of the "press and feel" category.

[Toby]

If you are going with 4" pipe, we are still talking about a steel dummy right?, you can put the arms coming off the sides or even behind the body, so you cna have as much meat as you want on them before you get to the thread.
ex:

http://www.wingchundummys.com/Product_93.html

4"? Anyway, I attached a high-tech Paint image. Cut off the flange (or cut it to the diameter of the male threads), and try to get the male threads welded to the arm as close to the spring as possible. Weld a large nut inside a recess in the dummy and thread into that so when the limb is screwed in the spring is as close to the dummy trunk as possible. To make this idea work you'd need a very large diameter threaded rod, the larger the better to make the attachment stiffer. And obviously a large female nut (as long as possible). Is this what you meant by the threaded system?

[sanjuro_ronin]

4"? Anyway, I attached a high-tech Paint image. Cut off the flange (or cut it to the diameter of the male threads), and try to get the male threads welded to the arm as close to the spring as possible. Weld a large nut inside a recess in the dummy and thread into that so when the limb is screwed in the spring is as close to the dummy trunk as possible. To make this idea work you'd need a very large diameter threaded rod, the larger the better to make the attachment stiffer. And obviously a large female nut (as long as possible). Is this what you meant by the threaded system?

That is one way to do it, sure.

[KPM]

Here's my recommendation for a free-standing dummy:

http://www.riograndewingchun.com/subpage.html