Kenpo-More Chinese than Japanese?

[densho]

Which does Kenpo favor more the Chinese or Japanese martial arts? For years I've been giving that question some thought. Without a background in Kung-fu or Karate it's not easy for me to find the answer. There are many techniques in Kenpo that have more Chinese roots. Also we have forms that have Preyinng Mantis and Hung-gar influence. Yet the structure appears different and there is some definite influence form Jujutsu. We have always been told Kenpo is a blend of Kung-fu with a helping of Karate and some Jujutsu?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Which Kenpo?

And the answer is, typically, YES.

[TenTigers]

sanjuro is correct.
It depends on which Kenpo style you are referring to.
There is Okinawan Ryukyu Kenpo, which has no resemblance to Chinese arts, and there is Shorinji Kempo, which although the founder, Doshin-So claims he created it after seeing the frescos on the Shaolin Temple walls, it still looks like Karate and Jiu-Jutsu.
There is Ed Parker's and Tracy's Kenpo, which came from Chow Kwai-Sun, and has had inputs from other Chinese teachers,and Hawaiian arts, and appears much more Gung-Fu like in its approach and movement.
I met a Hung-Ga practitioner whos lineage was not through Hong Kong, and his Hung-Ga looked very Kenpo-like as far as its movement, speed, and rapid-fire techniques.
Kajukenbo can look Chinese influenced as well, especially its offshoots such as Al Dacascos' Won Hop Kuen Do.
Nick Cerio's Kenpo came frome George Pesare,(it is said by some that he only aligned with Chow when Chow was elderly, so there was no real inpput other than lineage) and does not look Chinese influenced at all.
Fred Villari, learned under Cerio, and in an attempt to jump on the Shaolin bandwagon, "stylized" the forms and techniques to appear to the uneducated, to be Gung-Fu. Pinan Kata with Tiger Claws does not make it Gung-Fu.And forms with names like,"Ancient Chinese Kata Number One,Two ,etc" somehow seems to lack authenticity in my book.
Many offshoots from Villari have donned the "Shaolin" Moniker in an attempt to legitimze themselves.
There are Shaolin Kempo schools that have added instruction forom everyone from Tak Wah Eng to Shi Yan Ming, and the Shaolin Temple.
Those that know the real deal, know the real story. It's common knowledge in the Chinese Martial Arts Community.
If you are looking for a Kenpo school that is closer to Kung-Fu, then your best bet is Ed Parker,Tracy, and any of Parker's original students-Frank Trejo, Larry Tatum, etc.

[sanjuro_ronin]

sanjuro is correct.
It depends on which Kenpo style you are referring to.
There is Okinawan Ryukyu Kenpo, which has no resemblance to Chinese arts, and there is Shorinji Kempo, which although the founder, Doshin-So claims he created it after seeing the frescos on the Shaolin Temple walls, it still looks like Karate and Jiu-Jutsu.
There is Ed Parker's and Tracy's Kenpo, which came from Chow Kwai-Sun, and has had inputs from other Chinese teachers,and Hawaiian arts, and appears much more Gung-Fu like in its approach and movement.
I met a Hung-Ga practitioner whos lineage was not through Hong Kong, and his Hung-Ga looked very Kenpo-like as far as its movement, speed, and rapid-fire techniques.
Kajukenbo can look Chinese influenced as well, especially its offshoots such as Al Dacascos' Won Hop Kuen Do.
Nick Cerio's Kenpo came frome George Pesare,(it is said by some that he only aligned with Chow when Chow was elderly, so there was no real inpput other than lineage) and does not look Chinese influenced at all.
Fred Villari, learned under Cerio, and in an attempt to jump on the Shaolin bandwagon, "stylized" the forms and techniques to appear to the uneducated, to be Gung-Fu. Pinan Kata with Tiger Claws does not make it Gung-Fu.And forms with names like,"Ancient Chinese Kata Number One,Two ,etc" somehow seems to lack authenticity in my book.
Many offshoots from Villari have donned the "Shaolin" Moniker in an attempt to legitimze themselves.
There are Shaolin Kempo schools that have added instruction forom everyone from Tak Wah Eng to Shi Yan Ming, and the Shaolin Temple.
Those that know the real deal, know the real story. It's common knowledge in the Chinese Martial Arts Community.
If you are looking for a Kenpo school that is closer to Kung-Fu, then your best bet is Ed Parker,Tracy, and any of Parker's original students-Frank Trejo, Larry Tatum, etc.

Pretty much, though I read in an interview where Chow himself said that Nick Cerio is the man to go to about Kenpo.
There are a few "shaoling kempo" schools around that have nothing to do with Villari.
Typically, outside of SHorinji Kempo, Kenpo is noted for rapid fiire hand techniques that are a combiantion of closed and open hands, low line kicks from all angles, trips, throws and finishers, finger strikes and assorted meat by-products thrown in for flavour

[TenTigers]

I had a longe discussion wit Cerio, and he said that Villari hasn't changed any of the katas or techniques that he'd taught him.(This was when Cerio wanted me to join his organization) That was all I needed to hear. I declined.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I had a longe discussion wit Cerio, and he said that Villari hasn't changed any of the katas or techniques that he'd taught him.(This was when Cerio wanted me to join his organization) That was all I needed to hear. I declined.

EWWW........

Outside of Kajukenbo, I don't hold any kenpo that high up.
Never seen one of them actually fight like they train, I mean not even close.

[TenTigers]

Steve Sanders, founder of BKF Black Karate Federation was known for fighting using Kenpo technique, also for having the fastest hands around. This was in the 70's.

[Kansuke]

I messed around with Japanese Kempo for a year or so in Japan waaay back when. It was fun.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Steve Sanders, founder of BKF Black Karate Federation was known for fighting using Kenpo technique, also for having the fastest hands around. This was in the 70's.

Yep, saw him fight in a few old clips that had been circulating around awhile back, I think he also did some work in some of Jim Kelly's movies.
In the fighting I saw he rarely did more than 3 move combos, of course that was point competition so...
Again, even if you use youtube, you won't see "kenpo" being fought as it is been trained, wouldn't you agree?

[bakxierboxer]

Pretty much, though I read in an interview where Chow himself said that Nick Cerio is the man to go to about Kenpo.

Kind of requires a séance if you want it from "the man hisself"....
He's been among the non-living for "a while".... doesn't seem as long as the Wiki article indicates, but "time flies".

[bakxierboxer]

Steve Sanders, founder of BKF Black Karate Federation was known for fighting using Kenpo technique, also for having the fastest hands around. This was in the 70's.

Kajukenbo - Carlos Bunda won the first Parker Internationals and was featured on the cover of Parker's mag fighting Sanders and moving through a cross-over stance with his bridge-hand extended.
Think I've still got that mag in storage.......

[sanjuro_ronin]

Kind of requires a séance if you want it from "the man hisself"....
He's been among the non-living for "a while".... doesn't seem as long as the Wiki article indicates, but "time flies".

Bah, death won't stop a truly dedicated person.

[TenTigers]

I had a training bro from Hawaii, who did Parker's Kenpo, and knew Chow. He said that in Chow's later years, he had suffered from either dementia or alzhiemer's and most people were seeking him out to pose for pictures and claim lineage. After Chow's death, many people came out of the woodwork.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I had a training bro from Hawaii, who did Parker's Kenpo, and knew Chow. He said that in Chow's later years, he had suffered from either dementia or alzhiemer's and most people were seeking him out to pose for pictures and claim lineage. After Chow's death, many people came out of the woodwork.

Ah yes, well, that makes sense.
The famous " I trained in private and got the real *insert MA here* from GM *insert famous MA here* "

[jimmi555]

Fred Villari, learned under Cerio, and in an attempt to jump on the Shaolin bandwagon, "stylized" the forms and techniques to appear to the uneducated, to be Gung-Fu.

Ok this is enuph of this uneducated guess work, first lets get one thing straight
Fred Villari did study with Nick Cerio, but Nick Cerio was just one of his instructors
Fred Vilari was already a black belt when he went to NICK CIRIOS SCHOOL, and he at that time had to fight 18 of Nick Cirios black belts, Fred Villari beat them all and Cirio took him in as a sdtudent, Fred Villari then went to the phillipines whyle he was in the armed forcess and he met his wife hous family were all masteres of shaolin kempo, Fred Villaris kempo is a pure chinese style, the words karate judo and jiu jitsu were only added to market the style, because in america karate was very well known, as was judo and jiu jitsu, so its been advertized as kung fu karate judo and jiu djitsu, this is the Northern Shaolin 5 animal style as tought to FRED VILARI BY his wifes family ,they promoted FRED NOT NICK CERIO
And if you want to see Fred Vilaris style that he created it is called SHO TUNG QUAK, and only a hand full of people have lerned this from FRED VILARY , HIS ORIGINAL STUDENTS ONLY LERNED THIS STYLE, FRED BAGLY, ART SINGER, CHARLY MATERA, STEVE BUCANON, THIS IS THE REAL ART THAT FRED VILLARI HAS LERNED FORM HIS WIFES FAMILY, AND NOT FROM NICK CERIO,
FREDS KEMPO IS MUCH BETER FIGHTING ART THEN CERIOS OR PARKERS
ITS REAL SHAOLIN CHINESE FIGHTING ART NOT AMERICAN KENPO