Kenpo-More Chinese than Japanese?

[SimonM]

Do you mean this guy?"

[TenTigers]

wow, that's a new version of his story.
In the seventies he said he learned from his father,"who would hang three heavybags, and I would strike them in very much the same way as you would the wooden man' LOL
I love how he used to say he learned" Kung-Fu and Gung-Fu, which is the soft art, as well as Chinese Boxing"
Then he said he learned from a French Legionnaire named LaFey.
In another article, he said he learned from the LeBlanc Brothers
-it seems he forgot his own bullshi-er story.
Now he learned in the Phillippines from his wife's family?
C'mon, do some homework. This guy's history and story changes every ten years.
According to Cerio, he was a 2nd dan in his system and was 'asked to leave".
He then created his own style, um. Sho Tung Quack? (logical) and promoted himself to Tenth Degree Grandmaster. Anyone can do this, and as the creator, you are certainly entitled to promote yourself to tenth dan..well, theoretically.

[TenTigers]

History
Here is an excerpt from Black Belt magazine in 1975: ‘Villari’s martial arts training started early in his life. After being introduced to Western and Chinese boxing by his father, Villari went on to study jiujitsu and wrestling with the LeBlanc brothers in his middle teens. By the time he was 18, Villari realized his martial arts training was stagnating and sought out Nick Cerio as an instructor of Chinese kenpo. After completing his requirements as second degree black belt with Cerio, Villari traveled to the West Indies where he traded his techniques for karate and kung-fu training. While in the islands, Villari also studied under a Chinese-Australian instructor Soo, and gained his third and fourth degrees. After working with another master Len Chou, Villari received his fifth degree and soon decided to open his own school.’

[Liddel]

Interesting thread....

I have a number of friends that did Parkers Kempo years ago and they had said it was very japanesse based strong closed and open hand techniques more karate style than anything...other friends of ours that started much later only learn soft chinesse style moves now..its drastically changed from what it once was down here in New Zealand and IMO lost practicallity and became more wushu performance based

It ****ed alot of BBs off as they had to learn a whole new base...

Oh and dont buy parkers sig pads, a friend bought a pair of focus mits and kick pads at a seni of parkers, i was the first one to land a side kick on them brand spanking new and broke the strap clean in two....and im a Wing Chun guy LOL my round kicks are soft as (compared to say karate or KB)

DREW

[TenTigers]

How many years ago" I did Kenpo 9n the late 70's-early 80's, and the kenpo I described comes from then.

[ktkungfu]

Fred Villari, learned under Cerio, and in an attempt to jump on the Shaolin bandwagon, "stylized" the forms and techniques to appear to the uneducated, to be Gung-Fu.

Ok this is enuph of this uneducated guess work, first lets get one thing straight
Fred Villari did study with Nick Cerio, but Nick Cerio was just one of his instructors
Fred Vilari was already a black belt when he went to NICK CIRIOS SCHOOL, and he at that time had to fight 18 of Nick Cirios black belts, Fred Villari beat them all and Cirio took him in as a sdtudent, Fred Villari then went to the phillipines whyle he was in the armed forcess and he met his wife hous family were all masteres of shaolin kempo, Fred Villaris kempo is a pure chinese style, the words karate judo and jiu jitsu were only added to market the style, because in america karate was very well known, as was judo and jiu jitsu, so its been advertized as kung fu karate judo and jiu djitsu, this is the Northern Shaolin 5 animal style as tought to FRED VILARI BY his wifes family ,they promoted FRED NOT NICK CERIO
And if you want to see Fred Vilaris style that he created it is called SHO TUNG QUAK, and only a hand full of people have lerned this from FRED VILARY , HIS ORIGINAL STUDENTS ONLY LERNED THIS STYLE, FRED BAGLY, ART SINGER, CHARLY MATERA, STEVE BUCANON, THIS IS THE REAL ART THAT FRED VILLARI HAS LERNED FORM HIS WIFES FAMILY, AND NOT FROM NICK CERIO,
FREDS KEMPO IS MUCH BETER FIGHTING ART THEN CERIOS OR PARKERS
ITS REAL SHAOLIN CHINESE FIGHTING ART NOT AMERICAN KENPO

Man I thought ussd people were brainwashed!

[ktkungfu]

sanjuro is correct.
It depends on which Kenpo style you are referring to.
There is Okinawan Ryukyu Kenpo, which has no resemblance to Chinese arts, and there is Shorinji Kempo, which although the founder, Doshin-So claims he created it after seeing the frescos on the Shaolin Temple walls, it still looks like Karate and Jiu-Jutsu.
There is Ed Parker's and Tracy's Kenpo, which came from Chow Kwai-Sun, and has had inputs from other Chinese teachers,and Hawaiian arts, and appears much more Gung-Fu like in its approach and movement.
I met a Hung-Ga practitioner whos lineage was not through Hong Kong, and his Hung-Ga looked very Kenpo-like as far as its movement, speed, and rapid-fire techniques.
Kajukenbo can look Chinese influenced as well, especially its offshoots such as Al Dacascos' Won Hop Kuen Do.
Nick Cerio's Kenpo came frome George Pesare,(it is said by some that he only aligned with Chow when Chow was elderly, so there was no real inpput other than lineage) and does not look Chinese influenced at all.
Fred Villari, learned under Cerio, and in an attempt to jump on the Shaolin bandwagon, "stylized" the forms and techniques to appear to the uneducated, to be Gung-Fu. Pinan Kata with Tiger Claws does not make it Gung-Fu.And forms with names like,"Ancient Chinese Kata Number One,Two ,etc" somehow seems to lack authenticity in my book.
Many offshoots from Villari have donned the "Shaolin" Moniker in an attempt to legitimze themselves.
There are Shaolin Kempo schools that have added instruction forom everyone from Tak Wah Eng to Shi Yan Ming, and the Shaolin Temple.
Those that know the real deal, know the real story. It's common knowledge in the Chinese Martial Arts Community.
If you are looking for a Kenpo school that is closer to Kung-Fu, then your best bet is Ed Parker,Tracy, and any of Parker's original students-Frank Trejo, Larry Tatum, etc.

I've seen Tak Wah Eng videos and he looks bad a$$
I would train with him over a ussd/villaris instructor anyday!

[jimmi555]

History
Here is an excerpt from Black Belt magazine in 1975: ‘Villari’s martial arts training started early in his life. After being introduced to Western and Chinese boxing by his father, Villari went on to study jiujitsu and wrestling with the LeBlanc brothers in his middle teens. By the time he was 18, Villari realized his martial arts training was stagnating and sought out Nick Cerio as an instructor of Chinese kenpo. After completing his requirements as second degree black belt with Cerio, Villari traveled to the West Indies where he traded his techniques for karate and kung-fu training. While in the islands, Villari also studied under a Chinese-Australian instructor Soo, and gained his third and fourth degrees. After working with another master Len Chou, Villari received his fifth degree and soon decided to open his own school.’

ok you are saying what i said , that Villari had many teachers not just NICK CIRIO
i know his father is the one that got him started learning boxin ,kung fu ,gung fu
and other arts, i know all this but the actual thuth is what i told you, i dont know his father inlaws name, could this be the so called master LEN CHOU ? i dont know that, but i know that the family of his wife are the laste ones to teach Villari, and thats hou gave him the knolege to create his own style, i know why you have this opinion about villari its because he did the rong thing when he dicided to supermarket chain his schools across the country, and i will agree that most of his instructors are not up to par, i am the first to say that , but i do give credit where crredit is dew, and he is a real master of tremendos fighting ability, i know one of his origial students CHARLIE MATERA, went to PARKER AND STUDIED WITH HIM FOR A WYLE BUT CAME BACK TO FRED untill they parted ways, but i can tell you his original instructors were realy exeptional fighters, STEVE BUCANNAN WAS THE BEST HARD STYLE FIGHTER I EVER HAVE SEEN, and people would come from miles away to watch Fred spar with Charlie, i know many guys from california that would come to boston just to get privet seminars on fighting from Fred, i know he was into marketing and making money but dont missjudge his ability, he is a real master trust me on that

[TenTigers]

yeah, Kung-Fu, Gung-Fu AND Chinese Boxing.

If you would read, just a wee tad. Do a little research. Open a book. Google something.(learn to spell BTW) perhaps you might realize that Kung-Fu, Gung-Fu and Chinese Boxing are simply differen t spellings and names
FOR THE EXACT SAME THING!
What this means is that he has absolutely no clue of what he is talking about.
His story changes each time he tells it, he makes up names, facts, etc
Either he is a pathological liar, or he thinks you, and the rest of the public are so stupid that you would buy into this bulls*** without ever checking it out.
oh...actually, that is exactly what you did.
hmmm.....

[TenTigers]

"i dont know that, but i know that the family of his wife are the laste ones to teach Villari, and thats hou gave him the knolege to create his own style"

yeah? How exactly do you KNOW this?

[ktkungfu]

ok you are saying what i said , that Villari had many teachers not just NICK CIRIO
i know his father is the one that got him started learning boxin ,kung fu ,gung fu
and other arts, i know all this but the actual thuth is what i told you, i dont know his father inlaws name, could this be the so called master LEN CHOU ? i dont know that, but i know that the family of his wife are the laste ones to teach Villari, and thats hou gave him the knolege to create his own style, i know why you have this opinion about villari its because he did the rong thing when he dicided to supermarket chain his schools across the country, and i will agree that most of his instructors are not up to par, i am the first to say that , but i do give credit where crredit is dew, and he is a real master of tremendos fighting ability, i know one of his origial students CHARLIE MATERA, went to PARKER AND STUDIED WITH HIM FOR A WYLE BUT CAME BACK TO FRED untill they parted ways, but i can tell you his original instructors were realy exeptional fighters, STEVE BUCANNAN WAS THE BEST HARD STYLE FIGHTER I EVER HAVE SEEN, and people would come from miles away to watch Fred spar with Charlie, i know many guys from california that would come to boston just to get privet seminars on fighting from Fred, i know he was into marketing and making money but dont missjudge his ability, he is a real master trust me on that

I worked for mattera he is a scumbag! Cheap $astard who only cares about himself!

Didn't GM Villari send charlee threw a wall one time?
Sparing match I meen.

[twistingcrane]

mattera is a great and honorable man.

[ktkungfu]

mattera is a great and honorable man.

Really? How well do you know him?

He rips off his instructors so he can drive around in his nice cars and let you drive a p.o.s.

[SimonM]

Jimmi555 a few things, and I offer this information in the kindest of manners, just to make your posts a bit more readable:

1) Commas are not periods. Please learn to determine when a sentence is over.
2) Don't put a space before a question mark.
3) Read your post once before posting for the most glaring of spelling mistakes.
4) As well as periods, paragraph breaks can help create structure in a post.

Like this:
Ok,, you are saying what i said: that Villari had many teachers, not just NICK CIRIO. I know his father is the one that got him started learning boxing, kung fu, gung fu (Editor's note: gung fu is simply the pingyin spelling of kung fu, not a separate art, I'd suggest editing to select only one of the above.) and other arts.

I know all this but the actual truth is what i told you; I dont know his father-in-law's name, could this be the so-called master LEN CHOU? I dont know that but I know that the family of his wife are the last ones to have taught Villari, and thats who gave him the knowledge to create his own style. I know why you have this opinion about Villari; it's because he did the wrong thing when he dicided to supermarket chain his schools across the country. I will agree that most of his instructors are not up to par, I am the first to say that, but i do give credit where credit is due, and he is a real master of tremendous fighting ability.

I know one of his origial students, Charlie Matera, went to Parker and studied with him for a while but came back to Fred untill they parted ways but i can tell you his original instructors were realy exceptional fighters. STEVE BUCANNAN WAS THE BEST HARD STYLE FIGHTER I EVER HAVE SEEN and people would come from miles away to watch Fred spar with Charlie.

I know many guys from California who would come to Boston just to get private seminars on fighting from Fred. I know he was into marketing and making money but dont mis-judge his ability. He is a real master; trust me on that.

See, except for one place where I suggested you edit your text this is using precisely the same wording that you used. I just fixed up the spelling, punctuation and spacing somewhat. And see how much easier it is to read?

I don't know Viliari from a hole in the ground. I am in a position where I could potentially be convinced, based on the arguments presented, that he is either a moke or a hard man. Making a convincing argument consists, in part, of presenting your argument legibly.

[TenTigers]

[QUOTE=SimonM;893095](Editor's note: gung fu is simply the pingyin spelling of kung fu, not a separate art, I'd suggest editing to select only one of the above.) and other arts.

Simon, that's the issue, right there. Villari used all three as if they were separate arts, thus deceiving his students into thinking he had a vast knowledge of Martial Arts, when in reality, he knew very little.
How many times have you met the guy who tried to BS you about his experience?
I met a guy who claimed to have fought Bruce Lee in Madison Square Garden. His students hung on his every word. If they had even read a magazine article, they would've known that Bruce Lee never fought in a tournament in Madison Square Garden.
This desrves a thread of it's own.