Lifting weights determential to sinking chi?

[Cimaroon]

Ive just recently got into zhan zhuang and just curious what folks think about lifting weights. I dont go overboard with it, just basic couple few days a week. Do plently of yoga, stretching and now practing chi works.

[SimonM]

If lifting weights is detrimental to stinking qi than I say full speed ahead with the weights!

[sanjuro_ronin]

Ive just recently got into zhan zhuang and just curious what folks think about lifting weights. I dont go overboard with it, just basic couple few days a week. Do plently of yoga, stretching and now practing chi works.

Nope, it isn't, tension while doing soft qigong is.

[Three Harmonies]

When was the last time anyone heard someone say "I am too strong....." for something? Never. Weight training, if done properly, is a great thing.
Jake

[SimonM]

The only negative thing I've ever heard anyone say about weight lifting in a martial arts milieu is that if you don't keep at the lifting you lose the muscle mass quickly.

[iron_leg_dave]

This is a hokey concept. For sure. I've heard otherwise respectable tai qi players spouting this propaganda.

To properly lead qi, according to tai qi theory, the muscles simply have to be completely relaxed. If you can't relax because you lift weights, maybe you are lifting too much or incorrectly and have done some damage.

Old tai qi players, back when everybody that was doing it was doing it to whoop ass, lifted weights. They had stone padlocks, big stone balls, did all kinds of crazy zhang zhuan pushups, had chin up bars, did deep wide walking drills etc.

Most of them were probably already ripped from working on farms.

I bought into this concept and started paying for it when I lost almost all of the muscle mass on my body.

Forms burn a lot of calories, and they have to come from somewhere. When there is no fat, and you eat right, your body will eat away muscle tissue.

There are some good tai qi specific exercises that can be done with weights. Talk to a real master of tai qi.

The thing is, when tai qi is done properly, it can make you very, very powerful, by really strengthening the mind as it relates to physical movement. But the stronger you are physically, the more power you will have. Thats the real reality of it.

If your teacher opens his mouth about this concept, he's a fraud. Find another one, and ditch his ass.

[Cimaroon]

sweet. thanks for the replies. I shall go pump me up. Peace

[taai gihk yahn]

Ive just recently got into zhan zhuang and just curious what folks think about lifting weights. I dont go overboard with it, just basic couple few days a week. Do plently of yoga, stretching and now practing chi works.

not using weights is an excuse made up by so-called "internalists" who want to think their way to superior martial power without breaking a sweat or dealing w/the reality that the body is the body, regardless of what you do with you "qi"...

like anything, muscle resistance training can be done right or wrong; if you do it in context of so-called "internal" principles, you are doing it correctly (e.g. - proper alignment, awareness, coordinated breathing, not overdoing it, proper rest in between etc. - hmmm, sounds like what you are supposed to do anyway w/that sort of thing - creeepy...)

I'd spend more time considering how to structure a good weight program designed to meet your functional needs that just overtraining biceps and pecs like most people do...

[taai gihk yahn]

This is a hokey concept. For sure. I've heard otherwise respectable tai qi players spouting this propaganda.

To properly lead qi, according to tai qi theory, the muscles simply have to be completely relaxed. If you can't relax because you lift weights, maybe you are lifting too much or incorrectly and have done some damage.

Old tai qi players, back when everybody that was doing it was doing it to whoop ass, lifted weights. They had stone padlocks, big stone balls, did all kinds of crazy zhang zhuan pushups, had chin up bars, did deep wide walking drills etc.

Most of them were probably already ripped from working on farms.

I bought into this concept and started paying for it when I lost almost all of the muscle mass on my body.

Forms burn a lot of calories, and they have to come from somewhere. When there is no fat, and you eat right, your body will eat away muscle tissue.

There are some good tai qi specific exercises that can be done with weights. Talk to a real master of tai qi.

The thing is, when tai qi is done properly, it can make you very, very powerful, by really strengthening the mind as it relates to physical movement. But the stronger you are physically, the more power you will have. Thats the real reality of it.

If your teacher opens his mouth about this concept, he's a fraud. Find another one, and ditch his ass.

Dave:

it's not "tai qi"; it's "tai ji" (pinyin); or "tai chi" (Wade-Giles) - take your pick

the "qi" as in breath / spirit / energy / gas is not the same as the "ji" or "chi" which means extreme / polarity / pivot / axis;

otherwise, I agree w/your assessment of how old-timer TCMA guys trainied - remember, so-called "internal" training was just one aspect of classical TCMA - you did your stretching / stance work, then the vigorous stuff, and then the "chill out" stuff after to balance it (hmmm - warm-up, train, cool down - what a concept!)

the whole gig about taiji training being slow is a recent convention, due largely to certain Yang family folk's over emphasis on the slow stuff in order to make taiji practice "available" to a larger, less fit, well-off clientel (notice, the Chen guys tend not to do things quite the same way...)

bagua is also known for training against resistance (stone balls, big asz braod swords...)

bottom line: take two guys w/highly evolved listening / expressing skills of equal level; give one 50 lbs on the other and more muscle power due to resistance training; physics wins...

[bawang]

taiji in taijiquan means ying/yang opposite its the name of the ying yang symbol. there is hard and soft. there is soft training and there is tough training ying and yang. qigong is ying weigghts is yang. taiji quan is a NORTH LONG FIST STYLE and not a special unique magical style. u need to do weights to be strong. u just need to do compound excercises that use entire body not that bodybuilding bullsheet.
i find cable weights give u incredible root and make u understand rooting and entire body linking the punch

[imperialtaichi]

There is ABSOULUTELY NOTHING wrong with lifting weight;

It is only a problem if the lifting of weight dominates your practices; if you are only relying on your strength to overcome your opponent while ignoring your mind and techniques.

I would recommend also training with heavy weapons as well; this way, while you build up your physical strength, you'll be learning how to manipulate weights as well. If you can easily maneuver a 30kg sabre, just think how effective you are going to be when you grab onto an opponent.

Cheers,
John

[jooerduo]

I wouldn't recommend beginners in taichi to train with weights

weights should only be added to their training if they are pretty advanced in their taichi

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

As an analogy, lets compare the body to an automobile.. Qi, would be like the fuel.. i put the same fuel in a well-tuned Porsche, or a crappy old VW.. one will use the fuel much more effectively than the other.. conversely, i can take identical well-tuned Porsches and put highly refined fuel in one and old sludgy fuel in the other.. one will perform better than the other.. so, build effective muscles, and refine your energies..

The autos need 'drivers' though, drivers are like our minds relative to the 'body' analogy.. the driver needs to know their auto and its capabilities perfectly, the driver needs to be responsive, aware, and in control.. a poor driver/mind can defeat it own auto/body regardless of its potential..

The key is balance...

Be well..

[hulkout]

I can't believe that in this day and age after so many years of evidence of the effectiveness of weight training in all sports, people are still saying crap like how it's bad for your chi. Martial artists are notorious for saying that normal rules somehow don't apply to them. Somehow they posess some magic ability that will be impaired if they actually train hard. What a load of BS! Effective fighting techniques can all be explained by physics. Things like weight transfer, coordination of the waist and hips, breathing, etc. Chi is nothing more than your body's energy flow. If you raise your finger, you're using your chi. There's no magic about it. Or do you actually believe all those bogus demonstrations of guys being kicked in the balls?

[Cimaroon]

Guys getting kicked in the balls are able to retract their balls