Lifting weights determential to sinking chi?

[MasterKiller]

Weights for Combat Sports

[David Jamieson]

lifting weights is detrimental to:

1. having a fat ass

2. being a lazy slog

3. crappy training methods passed off as meaningful


compound lifting is one of the best methods of developing strength attributes period.

a weightlifter will make a stronger fighter in shorter time than someone who doesn't do strength development in a direct way.

[Lucas]

Taiji uses lots of resistance training. Having people push you, having someone on your shoulders durring your form, low taiji training. Taiji also uses round boulders to train with.

Lifting weights the way most body builders do doesn't make you that strong. In the World Strongest Man competitions on ESPN the bodybuilders always lost. There is something to be said for using the whole body as a unit.


www.imperialtao.com

my taiji teacher told me once that his nick name for people who develop their muscle strenght from weight training alone was "dumb muscles" but that doing weight training is ok, as long as you understand the neccessity to seek strength training from other sources as well. ie resistance, dynamic tension and the many of the other multitudes of common taiji exercises.

[Bob Ashmore]

I do feel that lifting weights to the extreme, as in piling on muscle mass, would not be good for your Tai Chi training. Pure muscle mass, in my opinion, is going to slow down your response time from undue muscular tension. Huge muscles tend to be tense without too much you can do to relax it.
If you don't agree, find someone who lifts weights with the intention of creating muscle mass and see if you can get them to relax that muscle to the point of sung. Even with intense relaxation meditation they most likely will not be able to relax their muscles to the point of sung without a long, long time to do so.
It's just how it is.
But lifting weights with the intention of strengthening without building large mass will not have this same effect most of the time.
This is not a panacea. I'm quite sure there are some heavily muscle massed people who, through intense training, can relax their muscles. I'm just saying that for most people that most likely will not be possible.
Since "sung" is hard enough to achieve without adding large masses of muscle to the mix, achieved through heavy weight lifting, I can't say that I would recommend body building to go hand in hand with Tai Chi Chuan training. However a light regimen, used to strenghthen but not build the muscles unduly, will not be harmful.

Just my two cents.

Bob

[SoCo KungFu]

I wonder what Bolo Young would say about this

[taai gihk yahn]

I wonder what Bolo Young would say about this

probably something in Chinese, I would imagine...

[bawang]

HI GUYS LOL

soft means relatively soft compared to other chinese styles, i want to see some of the taiji expert take a punch to the gut being completely relaxed, you will poop blood, srsly
there is the saying ,external starts harder ends softer, internal training starts softer ends harder, in the end external and internal kung fu fight the same,

internal doesnt say not lifting weights and not getting mucles, internal says not getting big bodybuilder muscles , "fei rou", a saying goes "an internal guy looks like an average man, but his body is hard as iron" or "iron wrapped in cotton"

[SoCo KungFu]

probably something in Chinese, I would imagine...

Then he could do his own sub title in english. As a side note, buddy of mine used to go to his gym in Cali. Said his boys are bigger than him, and his daughter is smokin hot

[Bob Ashmore]

I believe that it is a basic misunderstanding of the concept of correct movement in TCC that is where this "myth" came from about TCC and weight lifting.
You can "lift weights" all day long during TCC training as long as you do so in a correct fashion without any harmful effects. In fact, once you learn the correct fashion you would gain considerable benefit from the practice. The problem comes from a misunderstanding of the "correct" fashion.
As noted, many of the "old masters" of TCC practiced moving heavy objects as part of their daily training. Spears, stones, iron blocks, all of these were used and many more.
Clearly then "weight training" is and can be a part of TCC training.
How then did the admonition NOT to do so become part of the myths of TCC?
It might be because most teachers are not aware of the correct method. While they know that plain old "weight lifting" as practiced by most folks is contradictory to TCC methods they have no idea what the correct method is and so prescribe not doing it all.
However, a fully trained teacher will be able to move a student down a correct path with no problems.
Here's the trick, find a fully trained teacher.
That is much more difficult than any weight lifting!
Once the correct method of movement in TCC is learned, you can use it for any kind of action. However, this does take a long time to learn and so many "beginner" students are told that weight lifting is "bad' for them without ever being told the rest, which is: "until you learn the correct method".
On the other hand, they may be being told this, but only "hear" what they understand. A common problem.

Bob

[Knifefighter]

I do feel that lifting weights to the extreme, as in piling on muscle mass, would not be good for your Tai Chi training. Pure muscle mass, in my opinion, is going to slow down your response time from undue muscular tension. Huge muscles tend to be tense without too much you can do to relax it.

Well, here's a guy who is completely clueless about muscle physiology.

Increased muscle size occurs in FAST TWITCH muscle fibers... the key word is FAST, meaning that it speeds up your response time.

As far as not being able to relax, if that was the case the person would not be able to move. Relaxation of antagonistic muscles is required for movement to occur. If anything, increasing muscle size increases the ability of the muscle to relax, because this is the specific action that occurs during weight training.

[Hillheim]

Well, here's a guy who is completely clueless about muscle physiology.

Thanks for making that clear. That explains the rest of it.

Increased muscle size occurs in FAST TWITCH muscle fibers... the key word is FAST, meaning that it speeds up your response time..

A tip is to read up on how the nervous system works.

As far as not being able to relax, if that was the case the person would not be able to move. Relaxation of antagonistic muscles is required for movement to occur. If anything, increasing muscle size increases the ability of the muscle to relax, because this is the specific action that occurs during weight training.

First of all, tension is not a on and off thing. You can tens your armmuscles and still move your elbowjoint both ways?

Second, you would benefit from reading up on training physiology

[Knifefighter]

First of all, tension is not a on and off thing. You can tens your armmuscles and still move your elbowjoint both ways?

Nope... one muscle contracts and the antagonistic (look it up) muscle must relax.

[/QUOTE]Second, you would benefit from reading up on training physiology[/QUOTE]

LOL... I have a degree in exercise science.

[taai gihk yahn]

First of all, tension is not a on and off thing. You can tens your armmuscles and still move your elbowjoint both ways?

you have basically no idea what you are talking about; if you tense your biceps, your elbow bends; if triceps is firing at the same time, it's going to oppose that and no movement will occur - there's this fringe term that some people use for when this happens called an isometric contraction

[Bob Ashmore]

Knifefighter,
For a man who claims to understand physiology you are displaying a shocking misunderstanding of same.
You might want to spend some time slowing down a bit and feeling these things for yourself. It will cost you nothing and your understanding of many things will be greatly increased by it.

But let's just do this, tense up all of your muscles and then try to survive, much less win, a fight, against anyone, trained or untrained.
Remember, keep those muscles nice and tight the entire time.
Let me know how that worked for you.

Bob

[Bob Ashmore]

Tai,
Try it the other way around. Relax your bicep and extend your tricep to bend your arm. Now relax the tricep and extend the bicep to straighten it (but only to a naturally straight position, don't overextend).
I think you'll be surprised.
It is, of course, more complicated than that, but not much.

Bob