Miao Dao

[SimonM]

Miao dao training is interesting because of the weapon's limitations. As YKW suggested, it is dangerous to disengage for a cut because it is such a heavy weapon. Hard to overcome that kind of inertia. That same quality makes it good for studying strategic positioning and learning how to use the sword's curvature for defense.

It's interesting to note that in Europe large swords (such as the Zweihander, the pre-basket hilt design Claymore, the Flamberge and the Long Sword) were frequently used as a compromise between sword and spear. Soldiers so equipped would be dispatched to break pike and polearm formations and make them more vulnerable to cavalry or light infantry (such as arming sword / buckler troops). The blades provided some ability to counter the range and, with the inertia behind the heavy weapons they could break through a wall of pikes and snap wood shafts.

Of course there was also a ceremonial / organizational aspect to big-sword use... past historical research has suggested, particularly with the scots, that a clan leader carrying a large and easily identified blade would have had an advantage in rallying troops simmilar to that of standard bearers.

IIRC this has been discounted by more recent research as being unimportant of of lesser importence to the impact of the blades on pike formations.

[jdhowland]

...in Europe large swords...were frequently used as a compromise between sword and spear.

That's a good description of miao dao as taught in schools that prefer to keep them pointed somewhere in the enemy's vicinity most of the time. The technique resembles that of the spear although slicing and grazing cuts are used more than stabs.

jd

[Mr Punch]

Great post, thanks.

For some reason, the Japanese chose to do without shields, allowing them a stronger two-handed technique which affected the morphology of their swords; for example the tsuka became longer and the tsuba developed differently from mainland Asian samples, being not a hand guard but a weight designed to bring the weapon's center of mass closer to the hands.

The Japanese chose not to use shields and to use curved swords because they were mounted most of the time (hence their bow shooting practice from horseback too... and hence the curved swords because it's easier, more accurate and more stable to slash from horseback than to stab)... so the weighting of the tsuba would also allow for stronger one-handed cuts too, no?

[SimonM]

prefer to keep them pointed somewhere in the enemy's vicinity most of the time.

I think I would be most dubious of any school that preferred to keep swords pointed somewhere in the vicinity of ones allies rather than ones enemies.

[Oso]

best thread of recent times...good reading fellas!

[YouKnowWho]

Chinese has curve sword such as 柳叶刀 Liu Ye Dao (willow leave sword). The purpose of the curve shape can allow your sword to slide over a shield by using the back of the blade and then stab at your enemy's chest. It's like the 2 sections staff that you have one long section and one short section. Both sections are linked by chain. When you swing at your opponent and if he used shield to block it, the small section can still bend over the shield and hit on his head. Both weapons were excellent design for using in battle field.

[Oso]

possibly Off Topic but I just watched 'Mongol' and those were some fairly large ass scimtar/tulwar/saber type weapons they were using.

trying to remember my 'Burton' regarding where in history the curved sword first appeared....off of the axe way back I think and I think he regards the samurai sword as a cross between the two (straight and curved) to maximize potential for both types of action

[jdhowland]

I think I would be most dubious of any school that preferred to keep swords pointed somewhere in the vicinity of ones allies rather than ones enemies.

Hah!

I agree wholeheartedly. Without wishing to malign any schools that use a lot of figure eights and "flowers" with their miao dao, this is just what they are doing. It is probably good exercise. If we wish to keep battlefield applications in mind a more subdued and critical technique is called for.

jd

[SimonM]

Precisely.

I applaud your reason sir.

[jdhowland]

The Japanese ...were mounted most of the time ... and hence the curved swords because it's easier, more accurate and more stable to slash from horseback than to stab)... so the weighting of the tsuba would also allow for stronger one-handed cuts too, no?

Excellent point. The Japanese tachi, the Hungarian sabre, the scimitar were all horsemen's weapons. The miao dao would be perfect for that application. I have never heard of any record of its use in battle except the description of a sword drawing technique. Since the miao dao was too long for most men to draw in the normal fashion, a buddy system was used: each soldier would carry his partner's dao. To prepare for battle you face your partner and draw your sword from his scabbard as he does the same. That could be awkward. That does seem to indicate training for foot soldiers only.

jd

[Mano Mano]

Excellent point. The Japanese tachi, the Hungarian sabre, the scimitar were all horsemen's weapons. The miao dao would be perfect for that application. I have never heard of any record of its use in battle except the description of a sword drawing technique. Since the miao dao was too long for most men to draw in the normal fashion, a buddy system was used: each soldier would carry his partner's dao. To prepare for battle you face your partner and draw your sword from his scabbard as he does the same. That could be awkward. That does seem to indicate training for foot soldiers only.

jd

Wouldn’t it be more practical to carry resting on the shoulder.

[GeneChing]

This was in my morning paper. I only add it here because this thread popped up when I searched "Korean sword" (Jungshin came up zero).

Sword-wielding workout taps into inner power
Sam Whiting
Monday, February 14, 2011


Chantal Dominique Anderson wields a wooden sword during a workout in a Jungshin class.

Chantal Dominique Anderson of Sausalito has her initials engraved in her Jungshin sword. It lets her opponent know she means business during this fitness class derived from a Korean martial art.

Why: I love having the ability to tap into my own power quickly, get a killer workout as a warrior wielding a sword, and achieve complete relaxation through the closing meditation - all within a one-hour class.

Greatest accomplishment: Being in the best shape of my life at 33 years old and the fact that I can do 20 fingertip push-ups in a row.

Gear you can't live without: My 41-inch red-oak, custom-weighted, engraved Jungshin sword. The engraving provides an instant connection between the body and the equipment, like the sword is an extension of me.

Where you train: The Sports Club/LA-San Francisco, the "Urban Country Club."

Best time to train: Classes are Tuesdays and Thursdays at 6:30 p.m. The instructor, Annika Kahn, is the founder of Jungshin.

Most annoying thing people assume about athletes in your sport: People say they could never handle a sword because they aren't coordinated enough. Handling the sword actually helps coordination.

Advice you'd give a rookie: You have an incredible amount of power within yourself. Jungshin will teach you how to tap into that fire and channel it positively within your everyday life.

Those red-oak, custom-weighted, engraved Jungshin swords sure look a lot like red-oak, off-the-rack, unengraved bokken. What these people need are some Hankook swords.

[Lucas]

What, only 20?

[bawang]

miao dao families all have that ming dynasty dan dao manual. first page it says

"true authentic transmission of japanese sword"

lololoollol

It was an identical copy of the Japanese Samurai sword but much longer, wider, and heavier.

noe. its from japanese ye tai dao, 5 feet long

[PalmStriker]

Excellent sword skills with this 2 hand long sword: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noYb1p3L0Sg