Closed Door means you've become a family member to your Sifu. We have no secrets. You can watch our classes for free here:Originally Posted by zuti car
http://www.streamingmartialarts.com/index.php
詠春係一個家庭
Closed Door means you've become a family member to your Sifu. We have no secrets. You can watch our classes for free here:
http://www.streamingmartialarts.com/index.php
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As Master David exsplaned to me , there is only one way to become member of the family , but i can not put that on the forum .
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I agree with what you said . I used word "special ' to make distinction in approach from others chi kuing systems , nothing else , i will try to expalne what we are douing when i have some free time .
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is it really different. Its all abdominal breathing, but it sounds better if you learn something no one else knows. You talk to a conditioning coach and they will show you exactly the same thing.
詠春係一個家庭
Not exactly. Bi Si is common in the Chinese arts. Here's an example using my former kung fu brother. http://www.uskungfu.com/pedro_cepero%20Yee.htm
He even adopted his Sifu's last name.
http://www.yeeshungga.com/clifton/sifu.html
Last edited by Phil Redmond; 11-13-2008 at 05:46 AM.
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i have heard (read) stories that say one taught the other and vice versa
some by a student of one that became a student of the other - this person said that his more recent instructor challenged the whole room at a seminar - including his brother
in all fairness, the reason there are arguments around this (i guess) is because both these teachers have managed to win the hearts and minds of their students, almost certainly through their individual fantastic ability and ability to pass on their respective knowledge.
if i was a student of either i would find it an honour, as i do with my present instructor, and wouldnt care who taught who what. is the object of teaching not to let your students surpass your level?
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Also in all fairness, IMO a lot of it has to do with the fact that neither are exactly backward in talking up their own abilities and accomplishments and belittling those of their contemporaries, including each other. I can respect the persons but still shake my head at some of their behaviour.in all fairness, the reason there are arguments around this (i guess) is because both these teachers have managed to win the hearts and minds of their students, almost certainly through their individual fantastic ability and ability to pass on their respective knowledge.
LOL. This is why many regard TCMA as a joke. They should have all jumped him at once.some by a student of one that became a student of the other - this person said that his more recent instructor challenged the whole room at a seminar - including his brother
It sounds like the student chose the flakier of the two then, doesn't it? Time to reconsider, perhaps.
Rick Spain and David Crook both fell out with William Cheung after immature behaviour at seminars. There was the 1986 Cologne incident, and now this challenge to/from a sibling. I'd be giving up on seminars with this sort of track record.
Extremely egotistical and stupid to challenge someone under such circumstances. What about the hapless people who pay good money to become part of such an exhibition of human folly without an opportunity to choose?
The students pays me or my brother money, so I'm going to challenge them? Time for that Big Yellow Taxi.
I already have a nice family and don't need another. Don't you?As Master David exsplaned to me , there is only one way to become member of the family , but i can not put that on the forum .
Hopefully your guy doesn't throw out challenges at seminars.if i was a student of either i would find it an honour, as i do with my present instructor
Last edited by anerlich; 11-13-2008 at 07:41 PM.
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Watchful Dragon
Since my name was thrown in to this thread, I'll add a comment -
OMFG, does this garbage ever end? Who cares if William and David want to duke it out over who has what, or some of their students want to debate it. Just doesn't matter, and its been going on for a quite a long time, and I've heard so many different versions of who said what when, etc. Some of David's students I was friends with online back in early 90's even stated David left because he got fed up with William "watering down" stuff publicly starting in the mid 80's, which is when the bad treatment between the two started, and appointing Dana to run things in his and David's absences was supposedly the last straw. You know what though, its William's school and William's art, and if David didn't like things, there's the door. Just as William was shown the door by students that didn't like his behavior at seminars. And in the end it doesn't matter, it doesn't directly involve any of you, and it's just gossip. If you're going to gossip, at least do it while getting your nails and hair done like the professional gossipers.
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No more to add. However if anyone want's to continue with the garbage, read this thread first. http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...ad.php?t=52516
Peter
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For a HFY perspective on the matter please read this link entitled One Wing Chun tree, many Wing Chun branches
http://www.hfy108.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2510
In truth, tracing the genealogy of WC is far from complete. As there still exists "branches" of WC that have yet to present themselves to the public at large. As well as others that may have tragically become lost arts to the passage of time.
Who knows what information may still exist out there regarding the relationship between Leung Bik and Yip Man.
On another note, I would like to address this "secrets" issue....
There are no secrets! Like it or not, there is simply just knowledge that some have that other's don't because they have put the time and hard work in to educate themselves.
But instead of simply taking the time to learn and truly appreciate these differences amongst our WC families.... Some here would rather deem these differences as secrets and therefore attempt to cast a negative light on some members of our WC family.
Put it this way...
Does a college professor hold secrets from a grade school student? No, but until the grade school student puts some time in and finishes elementary, and high school or there equivalents... they will not be able to fully absorb and comprehend a lecture by the college professor.
This is the nature of learning.
And btw... refusing to post video's is not a form of keeping secrets. It's a form of quality control.
Last edited by duende; 11-17-2008 at 12:56 AM.
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BTW, good luck Zuti Car. I always enjoy your clips when they are posted.
Train hard,
Peter
Banned
How do you know there are "branches" of WCK that have yet to present themselves?
There is no compelling evidence that Leung Bik practiced WCK or taught Yip Man other than the story that was developed by Lee Man as a marketing ploy.Who knows what information may still exist out there regarding the relationship between Leung Bik and Yip Man.
WCK is not a system of knowledge and is not knowledge-based; it is, like any martial art or sport, a skill, and is skill-based. As such, our abilitiy to do it doesn't depend on intellectual knowledge (any more than our ability to play basketball depends on knowledge). You simply need to learn the few skills that you need to do the activity (the fundamentals).On another note, I would like to address this "secrets" issue....
There are no secrets! Like it or not, there is simply just knowledge that some have that other's don't because they have put the time and hard work in to educate themselves.
The different branches or "families" (what a silly term) are just different ways that different people have TRIED to teach the same thing. They are curriculums; they are not WCK. The curriculum is not the subject matter.But instead of simply taking the time to learn and truly appreciate these differences amongst our WC families.... Some here would rather deem these differences as secrets and therefore attempt to cast a negative light on some members of our WC family.
Your analogy of a college professor teaching an academic, intellectual, knowledge-based course is poorly conceived. WCK is not an intellectual pursuit. WCK is a fighting method, and like boxing or wrestling is an open skill. Are there secrets in boxing or wrestling? No. It's not a matter of being able to "fully absorb and comprehend a lecture by a college professor." In fact, sports and fighting methods and physical skills can't be learned or developed that way.Put it this way...
Does a college professor hold secrets from a grade school student? No, but until the grade school student puts some time in and finishes elementary, and high school or there equivalents... they will not be able to fully absorb and comprehend a lecture by the college professor.
This is the nature of learning.
And btw... refusing to post video's is not a form of keeping secrets. It's a form of quality control.
Registered User
There are "branches" in mainland China and presumably SE Asia which are not well known to those of us in the West. Presumably there are those which are known about but do not advertise nor teach openly. You know ... those ones that are still fighting the Qing
I don't know Terence. I kind of think "you are what you train". Personally (without getting into details) the way I used to train would have produced different actions to the way I train now.The different branches or "families" (what a silly term) are just different ways that different people have TRIED to teach the same thing. They are curriculums; they are not WCK. The curriculum is not the subject matter.
I agree about the difference in academic learning. The knowledge is generally freely available and you really are only limited by your intelligence and aptitude for learning/thinking. That is why you have 15yr olds getting university degrees in maths, physics, etc. No teachers keeping the knowledge to a select group of acolytes, or sharing knowledge 20yrs later when the student thought they had all there was to learn.
Last edited by CFT; 11-17-2008 at 07:31 AM.
Banned
In my view, the 'branches" aren't important -- the "root" is. The "branches" are just differing ways of getting to the root. When you get stuck on a branch, you never get to the root.There are "branches" in mainland China and presumably SE Asia which are not well known to those of us in the West. Presumably there are those which are known about but do not advertise nor teach openly. You know ... those ones that are still fighting the Qing
Don't all the branches have bong, tan, fook, etc.? Don't they all have chi sao, lop sao, turning punch drills?I don't know Terence. I kind of think "you are what you train". Personally (without getting into details) the way I used to train would have produced different actions to the way I train now.
You may say, "yes they all have those things but how they practice them differs" -- but my reply would be that those different ways are different examples but are not meant to be definative or prohibitive (in that you can't do them in other ways). That would be getting stuck on the branch and not getting to the root. When you really take those things and fight with them, over time, you'll find your own way of making them work, your own WCK.
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