Dr. Su Yu-Chang

[baji-fist]

In our class, we start of with tem minutes of quick warmups to loosen the joints. Afterwards we do basic punches, basic kicks(although at times we do kicks after stretching), and at times we do the dog skin palm from Piquazhang. Now the real fun begins, we do stances for about 15 - 20 minutes. In our Ba Shi training it consists of 8 fundamental stances:
Ma Bu
Zuo Pan (Cross legged Stance)
Su Liu (60/40 stance)
Gong Bu (Bow and Arrow Stance)
Du Li (Single Leg)
San Chi (30/70)
Xi Su (empty leg)
Pu Tui (I forget what it is the translation, but it is similar to riding tiger in the long fist system)

Ma Bu is the first stance we do first. Afterwards we do each of the following stances on both left and right sides for about 8-15 breaths (about a minute). Ma Bu is always the transitional stance. For example, I hold Gong Bu for 8 breaths on my left side, then I go into ma bu and hold that for 8 breaths. Now I go into Gong Bu on my right side...and so on.

After stance work, we do some stretches and break up into our respective groups. Since I belong to the Baji group, we continue on with our stance training via the baji kicks (if you see Xiao Baji, the first two kicks found in that form we do as basic stance training. We do it back and forth for about 3 breaths. Although the goal is 8 breaths). Afterwards we do basics from Baji and hold each posture for about 8 breaths.

After class is over, the taiji group leaves leaves and the baji group continues on with Da Baji. We stay for about another hour working on the form. But yeah, that is our training at our school. At times we stay after class to work even more on the Baji. Hope this info helps.

You must eat bitter before you can taste sweet.

[kungfu cowboy]

Thanks Baji-fist!

[BaguaMantis]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Ma Bu is the first stance we do first. Afterwards we do each of the following stances on both left and right sides for about 8-15 breaths (about a minute). Ma Bu is always the transitional stance. For example, I hold Gong Bu for 8 breaths on my left side, then I go into ma bu and hold that for 8 breaths. Now I go into Gong Bu on my right side...and so on. [/quote]

we have the exact same stance drill. we do a few extra stances that are in the various mantis forms though, just to get used to them more than anything. we have horse, bow/arrow, cat, monkey, dragon (or twisted horse), tiger, snake, lazy snake, rooster, low swallow, eagle, 7 star, 70/30, 60/40, and a few others. we practice the ones which we will be using the most in whichever form we're practicing that day. even though we have that slight variation, its nice to know that we're doing pretty much the same thing as the other wutang brothers.

--Jared--
A black
sheep is still just a
shee

[baji-fist]

Oh cool! Yeah we basically do the same stances. Actually in the mantis system, we too have extra stances along with the eight fundamental stances: retreating stance, ring entering stance, seven star stance, and twisted punch. In Baji, we do the stance training with the Baji low kicks, the elbow strike in Xiao Baji, and of course the Xiao Baji form. I too am happy that there is consistancy with our training methods! Hope to hear from you again!

You must eat bitter before you can taste sweet.

[kungfu cowboy]

How are you doing? It is nice to know that the core of our systems is similar. Our mantis also is flavored with baji movements. From the little that I know, we practice the baji-stepping punch, and also some driving elbow. There is probably more that I don't know of. I think they are a good addition to mantis. I would also like to take baji, but I think that I should wait awhile.(I am going to go watch the baji class tomorrow)
It sure is brutal. Seems like it would take a LONG time to develop the correct power. Does your sifu also teach piqua? I hear that they really compliment each other very well. Hopefully I will be able to discuss with you more as I learn more.Talk to you soon!

[obiwan]

Just to let you know, my teacher learnt from Adam Hsu who also learnt from Liu Yin Qiao! (Lie Yin Chiao)

I have been reading about your training regime and it sounds very similar to mine. I learn primarily Tang lang, but I do know basic Baji, pi kua and ba gua!

We hold the stances too, but for 3 breaths. However, the breathing is more controled, and you said your stances last for a few minutes. Our one lasts about the same time, but ideally at 3 breaths per stance per side. (Obviously the beginners cant keep up so they breath more)

I trained down in Australia, so it's nice to see cousin schools at the other side of the world!

And to Kung fu cowboys comment about intensity of training, our school definately doesn't train as hard as other schools I've seen, but every time I do square off, I normally come out ahead. It's amazing because I put in probably 50% of the time and effort that most other schools do, yet I can best most of them.

I've beaten practitioners of Judo, kendo, Tong Bei, Wing Chun, tae kwon do, and karate. So don't be too worried about the lack of intensity, it's quality.

I was beaten once by a Tong Bei instructor (after i beat his senior student) But he said I wasn't allowed to kick. I feel I was unfairly beaten despite the fact I slammed him into a wall and that when his shirt ripped I let go and he headlocked me with his spiraling techniques. But the fact that I was beaten still ticks me off, despite the handicaps.

Yep, so dont worry about the intensity, my teacher says, he teaches us technique. If you want to get toned and stronger, you can do that yourself. I get paid to teach technique, not body buidling or fitness.

So think that you should do the more physical side yourself, and realise you are getting good value training!

The Force will be with you...always

[baji-fist]

Kung Fu Cowboy,

Yeah, I am sure you will like the Baji class. Look for Andy, his Baji is really top notch! We are still working on Da Baji. I've seen the form done in the past and thought it look very easy to do. It wasn't until sifu taught it to us, I began to realize it was really hard. I am loving every minute of it though! It is a good idea not to learn Baji right away. Baji is very intense and you should gain some experience in Mantis or Chen Taiji before you get into Baji. Oh yeah, sifu does also teach Piquazhang.


Obiwan,

Welcome to the message board. It is always good to see fellow practitioner from Liu Yun Qiao's lineage. My sifu, Kurt Wong, was taught by sifu Su Yu Chang during the late 60's. Under Sifu Su, he learned eight step, seven star, six harmony, and long fist mantis, Chen Taiji, and long fist. In the 70's, sifu became a "Tan" disciple of GM Liu. GM Liu taught sifu Bajiquan and Piquazhang. Sifu also trained under sifu Adam Hsu during the early 80's. Sifu Hsu helped sifu Wong refine his Chen Taijiquan and Jiao Men Changquan.

Sifu also stresses technique. But the discipleship training requires for us to constantly drill basics and stances in order to develop our fa jing. In the regular class though, sifu asks that we do the endurence stuff on our own. BTW, who is your sifu? Again welcome to the forum and keep up with the training!

You must eat bitter before you can taste sweet.

[obiwan]

Mey Baji Fist,

My sifu's name is Paul Beach. He learnt Seven star from Adam Hsu, as well as ba gua, pikua, chen tai ji, and a few basics of the others including some long fist.

I'm working in Japan right now, and it's really hard to find a good school around my area. Went to a 6 harmony class, but they were really misguided. Sounds like the guy learnt off someone in China, who didn't want to teach a Japanese person properly, cos the applications are all wrong. (as in they don't make sense, not that they're different)

So, in the mean time i'm getting fat, cos there's only so much training you can do by yourself, motivation wise. I practiced my forms like crazy as well as strength workouts, but it's still getting sloppy cos I cant push myself since I cant use the moves on anyone. (No one round here does martial arts that well, eg kendo and judo only.)

any training tips?

The Force will be with you...always

[Shaolin Master]

Yes Paul is a good teacher who is also an acupuncturist. He is humble of his art and quite capable more so on the Praying mantis having learnt that from many sources prior to Adam Hsu.

I'd recommend him to anyone wanting to learn Tanglangquan in the area.

Regards

Shi Chan Long

[BaguaMantis]

baji-fist-

do you also do those kicking drills from hell? basically you do thrusting kicks and hold them out until sifu thinks your going to fall down?
jared

[olkat314]

Obiwan:

I don't know where Gunma is, but I know that Tokyo, Osaka, and Kyoto has a particular style called Taikiken that you might be interested in. This art is also known as Da Cheng Quan and Yi Quan in China. It focuses on chi and power development. So it can probably help you in 3 ways: 1) help give you more power for fa jing, 2) give you more sparring opportunities (that's a BIG part of their training), and 3) help train your fa-jing methods (another BIG part of your training).

If you just want to spar, you could always find the Kyokoshin karate practitioners -- they would take any challenge.

E-mail me at olkat314@yahoo.com if you want more info.

Tak

[baji-fist]

When I was studying mantis, we used to do it a lot, but it was at the discretion of the one leading class. When it comes to warm-ups, sifu's students lead it. But he would come around and help correct their form. Now we are doing Baji, we concentrate on holding low kicks and single action fist strikes.

You must eat bitter before you can taste sweet.

[Kenji]

Hello Obiwan,

You sound like a very experienced person. I agree with Olkat. If you need some sparring partners you should try out the kyokushin schools in the area. Also might I suggest you try the any pancrase, shootfighting and wrestling schools if there is any. They are normally very open to new people. I think even the Judo people would welcome you. I have found judo people very open to new ideas and am sure they will at least find it interesting.

What are you teaching in Japan? Tell me when you'll be back in Australia. Maybe all us Aussies can all meet up and get together for some training time together.

[BaguaMantis]

unfortunatly i have gotten very little baji training thus far. hopefully soon. i just have the 6 harmony spear set, which i beleive is considered baji.
jared

[baji-fist]

Liu Hei Qiang is a prep form for the Liu Hei Da Qiang (6 harmony lance). I have also learned the Liu Hei Qiang, from Master Lu Chagn Kuei. He was giving us a history of this form. It was originally a Xing I form, but a lot of the movements were modified to suit our Baji Lance. It is a very good form! I love the actions taught in the spear form. It has very good apps and will help inyour Baji training.

You must eat bitter before you can taste sweet.