What the heck is Jing?

[Paul T England]

Get a copy of Martial Mechanics by Sifu Phillip Starr...Very good introduction to power, structure and all things martial.

Paul

[Hendrik]

Get a copy of Martial Mechanics ...Very good introduction to power, structure and all things martial.

Paul

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/1583...pt#reader-link


IMHO,

looking at the cover page, feel the stress of the model, look at the angle of her hold wrist and elbow..... it is hold it is not flow..

anyone who knows Jing will not use this picture as cover page.

[bawang]

hi guys, "jin" is explosive power. crushing power is "li". northern style rotate the hips. southern style vibrates the hips. that's it. all the "jin"s are the same in gung fu.
jing is semen lol. i have good fa jing

[CFT]

The character for "ging" in Mandarin has two pinyin:

"jing" is the adjective
"jin" is the noun

So "faat ging" should be "fa jin" as some have posted.

[anerlich]

You are right.

Yes. Now shut up.

[Mr Punch]

looking at the cover page, feel the stress of the model, look at the angle of her hold wrist and elbow..... it is hold it is not flow..

anyone who knows Jing will not use this picture as cover page.

Er Hendrik, don't judge a book by its cover! 9 times out of 10 the cover is chosen between a designer and the publisher and is NOT the choice of the author. Don't know if this book is any good, but just saying.

Otherwise, like what you're saying so far, and nothing to add other than pointless speculation, so I'm back to reading.

[David Jamieson]

For sake of discussion,




1, short power is not equal to percussive sharp shock. short and shock are two different things. yes it is, i think you have been mislead if you think it isn't exactly that

2, long power also doesnt egual to steady increasing push. yes it does, powers are about "time" not "space" again, you have been mislead or are unstudied on teh subject


3, corrrect structure, combined with rapid exertion of force = power issuance or fa jin.

what is a correct structure? what is a rapid exertion of force? if you are asking these questions, you shouldn't be in a forum, you should be in a beginners ma class



5, So what is the different between Lek and Jing? the spelling and the meaning



6, It's not so hard to understand in the doing of it so much as it is trying to wrap your head around it when your only source is words on a page. ---


Doing is certainly is better then fantasying. you bring up fantasy a lot. I suggest training instead to get understanding of these things

most people like me love to think that way. however, thinking that way doesnt mean one knows what it is. IMHO. There are much much more then that layers and layers of training....etc thinking is not training, training is where you will gain understanding


if some one think that is so simple,
Take a look of the evident of , even if one's read most of the Taiji classic and doing Taiji for decades such as those Taiji practioners, how many of them knows fajing beside some demonstration which is only worthed for demonstration. most chen players are more than familiar with the idea of power issuance or explosive power or whatever you wish to call fa jin

take a look at the old movie of the taiji and crane challenge in hongkong. see what is the reality. These people train and also read alots... that movie demonstrates the poor quality of those people's training as compared to the training of today or the training that actually deals with physical combat. BOth are completely pathetic in their abilities and it is harshly apparent

am I missing something here? The topic seems rather straight to the point. I think many have spoken directly to it and answered it. Hendrik, why are you convoluting things more by being contradictory or rejecting the answers in favour of ??
I don't know what you are in favour of , but you are rejecting appropriate answers .

[sanjuro_ronin]

The easiets way for a layman to understand Fa jin is the analogy of a sneeze.
Of course it can't be described per say, only seen and felt.
Much like trying to describe being choked out or kicked in the balls.

[Mr Punch]

yes it is, i think you have been mislead if you think it isn't exactly that

Or you have. I'm with this:

1, short power is not equal to percussive sharp shock. short and shock are two different things.

I've felt short power that has been deep, not percussive, more reverb or balance-crushing, and from boxers and TMAers.

yes it does, powers are about "time" not "space" again, you have been mislead or are unstudied on teh subject

Rude boy! Again, I'm rather with Hendrik:

2, long power also doesnt egual to steady increasing push.

Of course it isn't a push.

OK, NOW I'm back to reading!

[David Jamieson]

Or you have. I'm with this:

I've felt short power that has been deep, not percussive, more reverb or balance-crushing, and from boxers and TMAers.

Rude boy! Again, I'm rather with Hendrik:Of course it isn't a push.

OK, NOW I'm back to reading!

You are entitled to form your own opinions and conclusions about anything i suppose.

I will have to disagree with you as I use this stuff regularly (read: pretty much daily)

I can physically demonstrate it, which is probably better than writing it down. lol

[Hendrik]

Er Hendrik, don't judge a book by its cover! 9 times out of 10 the cover is chosen between a designer and the publisher and is NOT the choice of the author. Don't know if this book is any good, but just saying.

Otherwise, like what you're saying so far, and nothing to add other than pointless speculation, so I'm back to reading.

you could be right on the cover.


However,

On,

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/1583...pt#reader-link

click on to the "surprise me." to see for yourself.

my take is the power generation level in the book is a level lower then the general Kyokushin or Mua Thai school. it is staying in the 19 60 Karate era. IMHO

[CFT]

I'm not learned in the subject at hand, but to me "lik" is raw strength. You can have it naturally or even build it via sheer physical work/training. So you have bigger muscles, stronger tendons, etc. But it is not technique specific.

Now faat ging/fa jin to me is a technique to express that raw strength. It sets the parameters of distance, timing and duration.

I liked the hammer and nail analogy. Having "lik", you can just bash the nail into the wood in one or more attempts. But the nail might be skewed, bent, etc. If you have good technique you should be able to hit it once with the right amount of force such that it will go straight in with no deviation.

CMA applies the concept of ging to more than percussive striking though which confuses the heck out of me. What is silk reeling ging, soft/cotton (min) ging, listening (teng) ging? Is it as "simple" as touch sensitivity?

Examples of non-MA ging that I have seen:

• the chop of the butcher/roast meats man
• the noodle puller who creates long thin strands of noodles without breaking the dough
• the Chinese chef who tosses the wok with seemingly little effort and still catch the food

Hmmm ... all seem to be food related ... time for lunch!

[Hendrik]

1, short power is not equal to percussive sharp shock. short and shock are two different things. ---H


yes it is, i think you have been mislead if you think it isn't exactly that ----David


please explain what and why it is the same thing for you.






2, long power also doesnt egual to steady increasing push. yes it does, powers are about "time" not "space" --H


again, you have been mislead or are unstudied on teh subject --David


Again,
please explain what and why it is the same thing for you.






3, corrrect structure, combined with rapid exertion of force = power issuance or fa jin.

what is a correct structure? what is a rapid exertion of force? ----H

if you are asking these questions, you shouldn't be in a forum, you should be in a beginners ma class ----David



principle is principle,
Again, I am interested in your view of WHAT and why on the subject.








6, It's not so hard to understand in the doing of it so much as it is trying to wrap your head around it when your only source is words on a page. --- David


Doing is certainly is better then fantasying. ----- H



you bring up fantasy a lot. I suggest training instead to get understanding of these things ----- David


For me, Training without understanding WHAT is it is a dissaster.








if some one think that is so simple,
Take a look of the evident of , even if one's read most of the Taiji classic and doing Taiji for decades such as those Taiji practioners, how many of them knows fajing beside some demonstration which is only worthed for demonstration. ----- H


most chen players are more than familiar with the idea of power issuance or explosive power or whatever you wish to call fa jin ------David


Are you a Chen players?





take a look at the old movie of the taiji and crane challenge in hongkong. see what is the reality. These people train and also read alots... ---- H



that movie demonstrates the poor quality of those people's training as compared to the training of today or the training that actually deals with physical combat.

BOth are completely pathetic in their abilities and it is harshly apparent --- David


IMHO, I would say something wrong with the whole system instead of on the people.







am I missing something here? The topic seems rather straight to the point. I think many have spoken directly to it and answered it.

Hendrik, why are you convoluting things more by being contradictory or rejecting the answers in favour of ?? ----- David


Simple, because I am not satisfied with the answer.





I don't know what you are in favour of , but you are rejecting appropriate answers . ---- David


Perhaps I am not favour of anything but i am rejecting everything which is not Wholistic or partial.

Perhaps there is no single answer but lots of answers and changing answers?



__________________

[Hendrik]

The easiets way for a layman to understand Fa jin is the analogy of a sneeze.
Of course it can't be described per say, only seen and felt.
Much like trying to describe being choked out or kicked in the balls.

Honestly, IMHO, the sneeze analogy can only analogy partial of the fa jin. for it doesnt tell what and how to sneeze or activate at will and what and how to direct the force flow to the target.

IMHO, the analog cant be described per say because it is missing other two components. and thus, it is not about the analogy but it is about fail to identify the components.

without be able to know every details that cause un repeatable issue.

Thus, in the Kuen kuit it says, ten thousands variation begin from the small details.

we call our art the Siu Lien Tau or the Essence training of the details. the power of this training is beable to laser sharply knowing the details and thus have an excellent handling on the subject.

[Hendrik]

You are entitled to form your own opinions and conclusions about anything i suppose.

I will have to disagree with you as I use this stuff regularly (read: pretty much daily)

I can physically demonstrate it, which is probably better than writing it down. lol

could you please describe what you propose instead of going toward you you and I I where lead to ego and not the subject.


as I mention above let's answer WHAT and WHy and HOW instead of I can do it I know it , You dont know....etc. those are not contribute to understanding or knowing the subject.




For me, Short is not equal to shock. certainly not.


Short Jin,

In general, Shot is refer to (or for describing ) how long the jin's effective distance (ie short extended physical movement , short penetration range) or short time / fast acceleration at generation.


Shock Jin

shock is the characteristics of the effect.

Shock has different charecteristics
IE penetrate deep and then explode, shatter in the surface, deep shatter....


after one has master the above, one can combine or fuse them together in any way one desire. But Shock and Short are not the same things.





Yee play a big part of these fajin because Yee is the component which Guided the Jin (missile) and decide how, where, and when the "missile" directed and activate.


Thus, if one have no handle in one's mind , the Yee will certainly fuzzy. if one have no experience in the silence or the shen, the Yee will certainly not clear......

This is the part of jin which physics doesnt reach. and this is the part of the Jin that most doesnt get it and stays/limit mainly at the physical level only without a full mastering.


Full mastering means clear , precise, sharp, details handling. without that quality repeatable fa jin is impossible and that explain why everyone is speaking about Jin but not many mastering it. IMHO.



So, David, you turn to describe and explain why your Short and Shock jin is one thing?