Do all HFY schools teach the same...

[Wayfaring]

Since I believe there shouldn't be a disconnect between training and fighting, I'd say the movements should be similar to these:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=qaP1X-lEtgc

http://video.google.com/videosearch?...revision&cd=3#

Those are the types of movements you guys train, right?

No.

Seriously, Jackie Chan?

[sanjuro_ronin]

No.

Seriously, Jackie Chan?

Don't knock JC, he can do the WD better than 98% of all WC people.

[t_niehoff]

Since I believe there shouldn't be a disconnect between training and fighting, I'd say the movements should be similar to these:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=qaP1X-lEtgc

http://video.google.com/videosearch?...revision&cd=3#

Those are the types of movements you guys train, right?

There shouldn't be a disconnect between training and fighting. In fact, I think the separation in a person's mind of the two (training/fighting) is already the beginning of the disconnect. Is there training to swim apart from swimming?

[Wayfaring]

Hey Knifefighter,

These are the movements you train, right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=So60uDg2x6o

[Wayfaring]

There shouldn't be a disconnect between training and fighting. In fact, I think the separation in a person's mind of the two (training/fighting) is already the beginning of the disconnect. Is there training to swim apart from swimming?

And thus, another HFY thread reaches it's inevitable conclusion on KFO....

Terence, this is such a novel concept - we've never considered it. Can you please tell us one of your stories about dry land swimming?

[Knifefighter]

Hey Knifefighter,

These are the movements you train, right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=So60uDg2x6o

Not really... that would be the TKD incorporation of their interpretation of BJJ. I train BJJ, not TKD.

[Wayfaring]

Not really... that would be the TKD incorporation of their interpretation of BJJ. I train BJJ, not TKD.

Oh but if the movements are similar it's the same thing, right? There's guard, passing guard, side mount, and an Americana. What's so different?

[Knifefighter]

Oh but if the movements are similar it's the same thing, right? There's guard, passing guard, side mount, and an Americana. What's so different?

In a way you are right. The actual fighting is going to look similar to that on a macro scale, and it does.

The specific details that were shown were wrong and those would look different.

[Tom Kagan]

What the hell? Why do you have to attack me through Taylor’s post? Taylor is his own man and acts on his own volition. Your play here is utter nonsense.

This is the second time you've used another poster’s comments to throw mud at someone else.

Get a hold of yourself.

My comment was to Taylor. The fact that I said to him you can speak for yourself, but you take that as an insult, is amusing.

And where is this first time to this "second time" to which you refer?

Is it in your tradition to be so self-righteous? Just read your own posts. You’re guilty of your own accusations. Leading by example?

Did I accuse you of being self righteous? Heck, beyond saying you have a bug up your @ass, did I make any accusations?

Your continued “name calling” and lewd suggestions throughout this thread are very clear indications of a person who is simply not here to have productive discourse on topics he supposedly has an interest in. How is it you think that having a discussion with Duende whilst insulting his family members to be “reasonable”?

What names did I call you? What insults did I hurl at you? Find them. I doubt you can because they don't exist. What does exist is my questions and comments on subjects which can be reasonably discussed over the internet.

I have decided to question your intention regarding this thread: 1) due to your history of past discussions with HFY members and 2) your comments on this thread show signs of history repeating itself. You’ve given several people reason to question your intention, and so far you’ve done nothing to prove our suspicions wrong. Rather, you continue to stir more BS. Perceived slights?

Sorry Tom, no free lunches here.

As I said before, I have no problem if you want to make this about me. Again, you reference "past discussions". What are you talking about? Pull up those discussions. As for my intentions it's simple: I ask questions and make comments on subjects I find interesting that can be reasonably discussed over the internet. What's yours?

[t_niehoff]

And thus, another HFY thread reaches it's inevitable conclusion on KFO....

Terence, this is such a novel concept - we've never considered it. Can you please tell us one of your stories about dry land swimming?

If HFY trains people to do in fighting what they do in training (which of course it doesn't), then why was Milton brought in as an example of HFY's training? He's not moving anything like he moves in the WCK forms or drills -- he's not using WCK movement at all. He's boxing/kickboxing.

BTW, it's easy to see if a school is a McDojo or not -- just watch the instructor spar (if he doesn't or won't spar, then McDojo) and the students spar (if they don't spar, then McDojo) and see if they move in sparring like they train to move or if it all goes out the window when they spar (McDojo). This would tell you, for example, if theTKD jiujitsu school you brought up was McDojo. Same with any WCK school.

[Wayfaring]

If HFY trains people to do in fighting what they do in training (which of course it doesn't), then why was Milton brought in as an example of HFY's training? He's not moving anything like he moves in the WCK forms or drills -- he's not using WCK movement at all. He's boxing/kickboxing.

I have no idea why that vid was brought in. I'm not going to dissect his video w/r to wc body methods, etc. I'm sure if you asked him he could elaborate on which concepts and aspects of HFY WC contribute to his overall game.

BTW, it's easy to see if a school is a McDojo or not -- just watch the instructor spar (if he doesn't or won't spar, then McDojo) and the students spar (if they don't spar, then McDojo) and see if they move in sparring like they train to move or if it all goes out the window when they spar (McDojo). This would tell you, for example, if theTKD jiujitsu school you brought up was McDojo. Same with any WCK school.

McDojo is just talking about the fast food like replication of a franchise. Mostly the TKD ATA school training ground work I brought up would fit that bill. But then again you do like to make up your own definitions and define that as truth, don't you?

[Wayfaring]

In a way you are right. The actual fighting is going to look similar to that on a macro scale, and it does.

The specific details that were shown were wrong and those would look different.

On a macro scale, a lot of things look similar. Which kind of reminds me of a Neal McCoy song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymOGM3d1cMU

[TAYLOR1]

Sanjuro Ronin,

Not all wing chun lineages use the same exact set of techniques. Some lineages incorporate and blend from other styles. Even with the Yip Man lineage, the Moy Yat and William Chung lineages are different. The footwork is different.

Regarding boxing and muay tai, I haven't trained in them. I've only watched movies and videos but haven't had trainers explain details. As such, my knowledge is limited. I don't just throw all Muay Tai teachers and masters as the same. Doing so with all fighting systems is inappropriate.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Sanjuro Ronin,

Not all wing chun lineages use the same exact set of techniques. Some lineages incorporate and blend from other styles. Even with the Yip Man lineage, the Moy Yat and William Chung lineages are different. The footwork is different.

Regarding boxing and muay tai, I haven't trained in them. I've only watched movies and videos but haven't had trainers explain details. As such, my knowledge is limited. I don't just throw all Muay Tai teachers and masters as the same. Doing so with all fighting systems is inappropriate.

My WC experience is Moy Yat from Sifu Chan and Tang.
I agree with what you mention in regards to footwork and incorporating from other systems.
Here is the thing, when you see a MT coach or students train their MT, it looks exactly the same as when they apply their MT in a fight, ring or otherwise.
We know that is not the case, typically, with WC.