Why Wing Chun?

[Xiao3 Meng4]

I had a teacher who used to say "old masters fear nothing but the elbows of youth." Interesting saying. Had I ever managed to connect with something like that, I'm sure he would've crumbled... I never did, though.

He also used to say "Age and treachery will beat youth and skill every time." Made me laugh, but I can't count how many times he gained the advantage by tricking me or uprooting my structure or mind in ways I didn't even know of. And just as I'd get wise to one, he'd pull out another. The f*cker. Made me learn, though.

[Askari Hodari]

My WC training has never included cardio. It was assumed that I'd pursue this on my own.

I chose to train in WC because of its simplicity and effectiveness. I found the theories of the art intriguing. And I've been able to apply them in real-time via sparring.

I do cross train however. In fact I claim three styles as my main arts. They are WC, Choy Lay Fut, and Capoeira. Each of these styles provides something that makes my martial art practice more complete. WC provides an effective theory for combat and helps me to maximize my use of close quarter techniques. CLF has excellent power generation and multi-directional attacks. Capoeira has superb footwork, take downs, ground movement, and close quarter applications.

I'd suggest training in WC if it a) compliments your existing martial arts practice, b) has theories that you can understand and apply, and c) can be taught by a competent instructor.

AH

[Ultimatewingchun]

My old sifu was quite good at Wing Chun, but that was not the main focus of his teachings. I did enjoy "playing hands" and working on the first form which I believe translates into "Little Idea." Please forgive me if I am wrong on that. I'm trying to think of info from over a year ago. Anyway, I have recently visited two Wing Chun teachers and have enjoyed the applications from this style. I wish the training contained more physical conditioning though. Is it normal to not have cardio training? My main point of this thread though is to hear feedback on why my fellow CMA practitioners chose Wing Chun as their main system of study. Also, I was wondering if you cross train in any other styles or conditioning methods. Thank you for the upcoming feedback.

***ALTHOUGH this topic has been brought up a number of times before on this forum, nonetheless thank you for bringing it up again, p & l .....I started out in wing chun 33 years ago as a student of Moy Yat - and the lack of physical conditioning within his school used to drive me nuts - as did his answers about such things (which were very similar to a bunch of the answers you've been getting on this thread):

He thought it was a waste of time to do stretching, pushups, situps, cardio, etc. in the school. Fortunately when I became a student of William Cheung 25 years ago, his program, especially as it was introduced to us by the visits of his top American student at the time, Blaine Collins - included lots of conditioning...

which I've kept going to this day (have been teaching 3-4 days per week since 1984)...and I ALWAYS SPEND the first 25 minutes or so of every class on conditioning (the classes go from 2 to 3 hours).

IT'S AN ABSOLUTE MUST.

As far as crosstraining is concerned, I believe that's an absolute must also. I do catch as catch can wrestling and a little bit of boxing also - and mix the three into an mma approach - something I've been doing over the last 6 years or so.

The lack of concern for conditioning, and a corallary of this: the lack of concern for consistent hard (full) contact sparring, are two of the biggest weaknesses within the wing chun world (the entire CMA world?), imo....

although fortunately there are some notable exceptions to this general rule.

[jet64]

Why Wing Chun?

Simply because WC is very effective when practiced correctly.

WC is a soft style. A soft style is higher level compare to hard style. IMO

[Grilo]

Why wing chun? Why not? I train wing chun because of its efficiency, easy of use, and easy of thought. What I mean is it is easy to think about all the time. I also love how the theories of Wing Chun can be applied to other martial arts. I do cross train and have trained capoeira for some time and I love taking the theories of WC and applying them to capoeira. There are holes in all art and cross training your mind in each can help fill the holes.

I lucked out big time finding a Sifu that has not only a knowledge of Wing Chun but also a Passion for it that can only be fuelled to love it more by my need to learn. I am not sure my sifu knows how good he is or how much i appreciate him teaching me

P.

[SavvySavage]

The issue I see with following a system because of a charismatic teacher is this: You will ultimately be let down because your reason of inspiration is human which means he has flaws. You may not notice them initially but they will come about eventually and you will feel let down. You may want to develop the skills of the teacher but without his personal experiences it isn't possible. Take your own experiences and couple them with what you are being taught to develop your own skill sets.

Better to study a style/system because you love it because then you will find your own inspiration for continuing instead of relying on an outside source to please or to keep you going. It's fine if a certain teacher made you interested in the art but don't let that cloud your training in the next years. Your focus must change from going gaga over a teacher to gaining skill sets with in that particular art.

[First Blood]

SavvySavage

Great post my thoughts exactly

[bakxierboxer]

The issue I see with following a system because of a charismatic teacher is this: You will ultimately be let down because your reason of inspiration is human which means he has flaws.

"Charisma"?
Pfooey!
Skill and the ability & willingness to teach the art properly are the paramount considerations in your choice of a SiFu. Without that person with those qualities, a style can never be properly passed on.

As for flaws, we are all human and have "foibles". (ok, some are not so minor)
So long as those flaws are not part of his knowledge of the style it doesn't really matter.
(provided you are fairly adroit in your "relationship-fu")

You may not notice them initially but they will come about eventually and you will feel let down. You may want to develop the skills of the teacher but without his personal experiences it isn't possible. Take your own experiences and couple them with what you are being taught to develop your own skill sets.

Experiences are only one part of what any practitioner brings to their art.
Physical/mental/character strengths and weaknesses also have a great deal to do with what and how you will learn.... as well as whether or not you are a "good fit" with your teacher's "personality".

Better to study a style/system because you love it because then you will find your own inspiration...

"No one can do it for you!"

[SavvySavage]

"Charisma"?
Pfooey!
Skill and the ability & willingness to teach the art properly are the paramount considerations in your choice of a SiFu. Without that person with those qualities, a style can never be properly passed on.

Could you please elaborate on some of your points? Different people will have different explanations of ability and willingness to teach an art properly and I'm interested in what you meant and what relevant experiences you can present. Thanks.

Experiences are only one part of what any practitioner brings to their art.
Physical/mental/character strengths and weaknesses also have a great deal to do with what and how you will learn.... as well as whether or not you are a "good fit" with your teacher's "personality".

There are two schools of thought I think. One school says that you need someone to show you the basics and then it's up to you to master them which will bring you to the next level. The other school says that you practice the basics forever but then you need someone to show you the finer points to get to the advanced levels.

Which school of thought do you think is best?




"No one can do it for you!"[/QUOTE]

[TenTigers]

the advanced techniques ARE the basics. The only difference is sensitivity, distance, angles, acuracy and timing. This comes with time and practice.

[bakxierboxer]

the advanced techniques ARE the basics. The only difference is sensitivity, distance, angles, acuracy and timing. This comes with time and practice.

???????.......
how can I put this diplomatically?
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??????? oh, uh, yeah!

WRONG!

It is true that an advanced practitioner can "do wonders" with "basic techniques".
What allows them to do this is their acquisition of "advanced skills" which are what you listed:
"sensitivity, distance, angles, acuracy and timing".
These are all acquired and polished by practice, use and experience... over time, as you said.
Further, these are all combined with techniques as one acquires the "gungs".
(all along never relieving you of the need to expend copious quantities of "blood, sweat and tears")

Generally speaking, "basic techniques" are single discrete techniques.
Again speaking generally, "advanced techniques" are compound techniques.
(which is not at all the same as multiple techniques)

[Vajramusti]

Generally speaking, "basic techniques" are single discrete techniques.
Again speaking generally, "advanced techniques" are compound techniques.
(which is not at all the same as multiple techniques)[/QUOTE]
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A good distinction.

Bengal Tiger

[Ali. R]

"Charisma"?
Pfooey!

Skill and the ability & willingness to teach the art properly are the paramount considerations in your choice of a SiFu. Without that person with those qualities, a style can never be properly passed on.

As for flaws, we are all human and have "foibles". (ok, some are not so minor)
So long as those flaws are not part of his knowledge of the style it doesn't really matter.
(provided you are fairly adroit in your "relationship-fu")

Very good post!

That’s how those who cant do; just create problems for someone who can… Hoping that those problems will or could take away from ones skills or knowledge…

Everyone has eyes and can think too, but most here would rather believe and add fire to the problem, (we don’t have answers to everything) but most are not listening with their ears and because of their lack of knowledge they’re not being open, but only staying on the side of the so-called problem…

They rather cling to the ideal of the pass, because the more they speak the more they show that they no nothing…


Ali Rahim.

[SavvySavage]

I can't tell who makes the least sense: bakxierboxer or Ali. R.

Could you two get out of your heads and say what you mean? Maybe I'm so unenlightened that I'm not ready to accept the abundant knowledge of your posts.

I'm just being playful so please don't be offended. Seriously though, spit it out

[TenTigers]

???????.......
Further, these are all combined with techniques as one acquires the "gungs".
Generally speaking, "basic techniques" are single discrete techniques.
Again speaking generally, "advanced techniques" are compound techniques.
(which is not at all the same as multiple techniques)

The gungs are in many cases taught in the beginning as basics, Although there are certain elements that are not taught or shown to beginners or outsiders, the seeds are there, it is up to the Sifu and the student to nourish them and take their Gung-Fu to the higher levels.