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Thread: Liable online

  1. #1
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    Liable online

    I found this case interesting. I'd love to hear more about it, along with any similar cases you all might stumble upon.

    Prosecutor goes after man for his online rants
    Nicholas Riccardi, Los Angeles Times
    Friday, December 5, 2008

    (12-05) 04:00 PST Fort Collins, Colo. -- Locked in a visitation dispute with his ex-girlfriend over their young daughter, J.P. Weichel wanted to vent, court records show.

    Weichel, 40, allegedly posted comments about the woman on the Craigslist "Rants and Raves" forum, accusing her of child abuse and of welfare fraud, and making crude comments about her sex life. The woman said the postings were defamatory. But, unlike the vast majority of libel cases, which are tried in civil court, local authorities have taken the unusual step of charging Weichel with the crime of defaming his ex-girlfriend online.

    Colorado is one of a dwindling number of states with a criminal law against libel. The rarely used statute dates to the 19th century.

    But Larimer County District Attorney Larry Abrahamson said Colorado's statute applied precisely to what Weichel did.

    Weichel could not be reached for comment. His attorney, Michael Liggett, has a policy of not speaking with reporters, according to an assistant at his law office.

    Several other lawyers said the case should be handled in civil court. Bringing the government into the dispute infringes on free speech, they said.

    "Being a jerk isn't necessarily grounds for felony prosecution," said Mark Silverstein, legal director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Colorado.

    Gregory Lisby, a communications professor at Georgia State University, has tracked criminal libel prosecutions. He said the states that retain such laws - there are 17, according to free-speech groups - have failed to update legislation that stems from 15th century English common law.

    Criminal libel prosecutions are "a sledgehammer when a scalpel would do the same trick," Lisby said.

    His research has shown the number of criminal libel cases dropping, but the Internet could reverse that, Lisby said. People don't realize that scathing postings or e-mails can make them liable for defamation charges.

    "More and more people view the online world as a free-rant place," Lisby said. "They think it's par for the course, but they're setting themselves up for lawsuits" or prosecution.

    In civil libel cases, truth is the best defense, and the dead cannot be libeled. But Colorado's criminal statute holds that it is illegal to "blacken the memory of one who is dead." Truth is not a defense in those cases, nor in ones that "expose the natural defects of one who is alive."

    According to police and court records, Weichel's postings were purely personal. Weichel's ex-girlfriend contacted police in Loveland last December about anonymous postings.

    According to a police report, the postings alleged that she abused her child and concealed it from social workers, that she committed welfare fraud and that she worked for a "crooked" Fort Collins lawyer whom she sexually serviced. The postings were laced with crude references to her body. The woman told police that people who knew her read them and tried to defend her in online comments.

    Police traced the postings to a computer to which Weichel had access. In August, Loveland police questioned Weichel at his workplace about the postings.

    "Weichel stated he was 'just venting,' " according to an affidavit for an arrest warrant filed in court here.

    Abrahamson's office filed two criminal libel charges against Weichel on Oct. 21.
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
    Support our forum by getting your gear at MartialArtSmart

  2. #2
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    Wow. Never knew we had that law on the books. In my own town, no less.

    Well, one hopes for the possibility of this being used as a test case to bring the law up to date, though personally I won't be holding my breath.

  3. #3
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    can i form lawsuits against trolls?
    For whoso comes amongst many shall one day find that no one man is by so far the mightiest of all.

  4. #4
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    More proof of how nasty women can get and how nitpicky lawyers can be.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  5. #5
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    oh....I thought this was about another RateMyCamelToe site


    darn!
    "My Gung-Fu may not be Your Gung-Fu.
    Gwok-Si, Gwok-Faht"

    "I will not be part of the generation
    that killed Kung-Fu."

    ....step.

  6. #6
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    Nothing nitpicky about it. Accusing someone of child abuse and welfare fraud are serious allegations. I believe those are actually felonies. If I were her, and his assertions are bs, I'd go after him in civil court and in criminal court.
    When given the choice between big business and big government, choose big business. Big business never threw millions of people into gas chambers, but big government did.

    "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men" -Samuel Adams

  7. #7
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    It's where you cross the line between being insulting and rude and making allegations of criminal misconduct in a public forum.
    The weakest of all weak things is a virtue that has not been tested in the fire.
    ~ Mark Twain

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    ~ Joe Lewis

    A warrior may choose pacifism; others are condemned to it.
    ~ Author unknown

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  8. #8
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    The law (or the lawyers) aren't more nitpicky now. It's just the methods of publishing the libel have changed. Now it is odd to have a criminal law for libel, I didn't know that was out there (but I don't practice in Colorado either).

    For whatever reason, people think that the internet insulates them from taking responsibility for their words.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    AND, yea, a good bit of it is about whether you can fight with what you know...kinda all of it is about that.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judge Pen View Post
    The law (or the lawyers) aren't more nitpicky now. It's just the methods of publishing the libel have changed. Now it is odd to have a criminal law for libel, I didn't know that was out there (but I don't practice in Colorado either).

    For whatever reason, people think that the internet insulates them from taking responsibility for their words.
    im holding you responsible for this !

    For whoso comes amongst many shall one day find that no one man is by so far the mightiest of all.

  10. #10
    people is always searching for info or links or references on the net.

    as far as ranting in a forum well it is just a rant.

    --


  11. #11
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    The Myth Of Anonymity

    Some people think because they're online and using an alias, that what they say can't come back and bite them in the ass. By now everyone should know that there is no such thing as anonymity or privacy, especially online. The guy should have known better. If his allegations are true, he should have used them properly in conjunction with the court system to get custody of his child. If his allegations are BS he has made him self look like a fool and probably done serious damage to his chances of getting custody of his child. The rule about thinking before you speak has been around a lot longer than the net.
    "Repugnant is a creature that would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of it's fleeting time here." - Tool

    www.bentmonk.com

  12. #12
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    Let me take this time to mention that my ex, is a bright,charming woman, who shows no signs of mental instability, bi-polar disorder, borderline personality disorder, is NOT a coniving,calculating, manipulating bit*h,and she is not trying to start her own cult, by surrounding herself with 'minions' of which she attempts to have control over their lives by acting as their "life coach."
    Furthermore, she is NOT a pathological liar, and certainly NOT lost in her own distorted view of herslf and the world she creates around her.
    I would also like to state that I wish her only the best, and hold no animosity or grudges against her.
    Last edited by TenTigers; 12-10-2008 at 08:52 AM.
    "My Gung-Fu may not be Your Gung-Fu.
    Gwok-Si, Gwok-Faht"

    "I will not be part of the generation
    that killed Kung-Fu."

    ....step.

  13. #13
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    Full Coverage

    Quote Originally Posted by TenTigers View Post
    Let me take the time to mention that my ex, is a bright,charming woman, who shows no signs of mental instability, bi-polar disorder, borderline personality disorder, is NOT a coniving,calculating, manipulating bit*h,and she is not trying to start her own cult, by surrounding herself with 'minions' of which she attempts to have control over their lives by acting as their "life coach."
    Furthermore, she is NOT a pathological liar, and certainly NOT lost in her own distorted view of herslf and the world she creates around her.
    I would also like to state that I wish her only the best, and hold no animosity or grudges against her.
    Way to CYA there TT...nice. lol
    "Repugnant is a creature that would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of it's fleeting time here." - Tool

    www.bentmonk.com

  14. #14
    Greetings,

    What about idea theft? What if you posted something on an internet forum and it was used in a movie?


    mickey

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judge Pen View Post
    For whatever reason, people think that the internet insulates them from taking responsibility for their words.
    i anticipate the feds knocking on my door to arrest me on charges relating to my stances on certain issues of american foreign policy, along with my general belief structure... any law can be enacted to make anything one does illegal, so it is no suprise to me that these sorts of things will be more frequent in the future... yet relating to this particular incident involving the accuasations of child abuse, i stand behind the an investigation into them... harming children and hiding the fact is beyond contempt... but stating personal beliefs that are at war with political correctedness is another issue. all i can say is... bring it on, i understand full well the repurcussions that may stem for my beliefs and i take full responsibility for speaking and expressing my views and beliefs... it takes courage to stand up for what one believes in...

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