Mastery

[TenTigers]

Gung-Fu is like any other skill, such as a guitar. It takes many hours of practicing scales, runs, riffs, etc before one can improvise, or jam on a simple I,IV,V Blues progression. Then there are the Steve Vai's of the world, who shut themselves off in their rooms every day for ten hour practice sessions until the instrument and their playing is a total expression of themselves, spontaneous outpouring of emotion from the soul directly out into the fingertips. To know your instrument so well, that if there is a sound in your head, it immediately is able to come out in your hands on the instrument-that is mastery.
My Gung-Fu is like my guitar playing. I can jam, and I have moments of spontaneous inspirational flow. But, I do not know the entire fretboard. I cannot do a "C " scale in every position, find any note at will on the fretboard.
But from what I know well, my chops-when I find my groove, I can wail.

So..I am not a master. But some things I can do very well.

[Liddel]

I think the 10k reps rather than hours is a good point... Sifu mentioned to me on the first day of training more than a decade ago id need at least 8k hours to learn and practice VT to have a decent skill level...thats not even close to mastery. Its similar to an apprenticeship just to get going etc.

Slightly off topic but your post Tentigers reminds me of guys like Angus Young or Hendrix...or Eddie VH.

They got to a point where they know thier craft so well (in this case shredding an axe) that they can perform under ever changing situations...uneffected, or totally change the art.

Jimi could play better than most with his teeth, which is insane and angus head bangs like a machine gun and rolls around on the floor without screwing up one single note...EVH plucks notes with fingers from one hand.

Many would agree they could be classed as masters but would they think that themselves.....

Could the term 'master' be more about perspective, like being in the top percentage for whatever your doing ?

P.S Tentigers... Gilmour is GOD ! LOL

DREW

[TenTigers]

yes...Gilmore IS god.

[Laukarbo]

u are a master when u got the glow....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWVhiIisH30

[chusauli]

I guess the question is - mastery of what? A single motion? Yes, perhaps 10,000 reps will make it automatic for you, but not WCK as a whole.

Maybe in WCK as a whole with 10000 hours, you can have a "working situational knowledge"...

We're human, I prefer the term "a work in process"...

For a long time I also studied NLPand we were taught that we could have "similar results" if we mapped them as "success leaves clues". But seeing what people who have had a lifetime of practice with, its hardly a comparison at times.

Interesting posts...

[sanjuro_ronin]

You can't put a time frame on any human physical endevour.
Fact is, what takes Tim 10k hours can take Phil 20k and take John 5K.

[TenTigers]

not only that, but how do you define mastery? It is an individual experience. My students stand in awe of my technique, yet I feel as a beginner when touching hands with my Sifu, who then feels he is a shadow of his own.
It's all relative.

[sihing]

not only that, but how do you define mastery? It is an individual experience. My students stand in awe of my technique, yet I feel as a beginner when touching hands with my Sifu, who then feels he is a shadow of his own.
It's all relative.

Good post, I was asking myself the same question.

IMO, the word and meaning behind Mastery, is a thing of the mind. The mind will set limitations and boundaries to the true reality of what is happening and what we are capable of. Therefore if you are living in that reality you will be subjected to that paradigm. If you ever break thru a limitation, you wonder why you ever thought that way in the first place.

James

[stonecrusher69]

I know in the Philippines to be considerd a Grandmaster one had to have a certain number of decades put in and also a long teaching record to be considerd by your peers as a master or grandmaster. Perhaps thats not a bad way to look at it.It does not say wherether the person is good or not it can give you some idea.

[Wayfaring]

Here's a more philosophical approach to this question. Is "mastery" more of an ideal to strive towards continuously rather than a destination to attain?

[TenTigers]

Here's a more philosophical approach to this question. Is "mastery" more of an ideal to strive towards continuously rather than a destination to attain?

There is a sky above sky, a skill above skill. There is always a higher mountain.You should always be striving to develop and grow. When you stop, and you become complacent in your skills, then you do not stay where you are, you backslide and your skills decline. Usually people who do this do not realize it until they are too far gone. Usually, their egos prevent this.

[taai gihk yahn]

mastery is the ability to utilize a technique as if one were not utilizing a technique;

[bakxierboxer]

mastery is the ability to utilize a technique as if one were not utilizing a technique;

.... which might "translate" as their techniques had become "reflexive" or "spontaneous".

OTOH, it's still useful for a "teacher type" to be able to demonstrate "a technique" as "just that".

[Wu Wei Wu]

The term 'mastery' is clearly a loaded one, especially in the domain of Gung Fu. Perhaps 'high degree of proficiency' should be substituted.

Chu Sau Li - I'm interested to hear what aspects of NLP, if any, had any cross-application to Wing Chun.

Suki

[chusauli]

Suki,

I suppose you are familiar with NLP, so I will not go into detail...you can use all of the following:

Presuppositions, Modelling, Well formed Outcomes, VAK, Anchoring, Chaining anchors, Swish Patterns, 6-Step reframe, rapport skills, Meta states, Representation systems, Strategies, Predicates, Information gathering, Meta Model, Outcomes, Eye accessing cues, time line, Reframing, Communication, Training, Training the Trainer, Peak Performance, Self Actualization, Milton Model, Satir Model.

All in NLP can be used to aid in any learning. Its just a way of cutting down and saving time in business, therapy, coaching, peak athletic performance, and medical treatment.

WCK practitioners would do well to integrate more of it. I'd certainly like to hear your experiences.

Best regards,