Comparison between wing chun and other long rang fighting styles

[SimonM]

it can be like watching two slugs mate.

Eurgh, that is the yuckiest simile I've seen all week.

[bakxierboxer]

I would say it's not the technique that's the "fastest" but the one that lands first.
{snip}

... I for one prefer front kicks to round houses because they're sharp, penetrating and great to stop a charging man. Fast, direct, effective. But sometimes the longer route pays for dividends.

"Interesting"..... primarily because this is the first time I've seen you post something "technical" with which I can agree.... and then you went and made it TWO things!

This also raises a question I've had for quite a while...
WHY is it that I've seldom seen front kicks used in MMA?
(especially in light of the fact that 'most players" are "wide open" in the midsection?)

As for "longer routes", those will be available (or not) depending on the player's "guard".... or if it even exists at all.

[SimonM]

It's because of two things: 1) it's relatively easy to screw up a front kick and end up on your ass. A roundhouse is slightly safer. Slightly.

2) A lot of the guys doing MMA were trained in MT as their primary kicking art. MT is heavy on roundhouse kicks and light on everything else.

[bakxierboxer]

It's because of two things: 1) it's relatively easy to screw up a front kick and end up on your ass. A roundhouse is slightly safer. Slightly.

You must've learned "different" kicking than I did.

[Yum Cha]

I like Wing Chun, but for all of its talk of directness, I actually find the style spends too much time chasing hands looking for fuk sau or pac sau. when the hands should be going to the target and let the elbows do the reflecting.

Ray, there you go, giving away all the secrets....

[Yum Cha]

This also raises a question I've had for quite a while...
WHY is it that I've seldom seen front kicks used in MMA?
(especially in light of the fact that 'most players" are "wide open" in the midsection?)
.

Didn't Cung Lee take out an opponent with a front kick to the liver?

[SimonM]

You must've learned "different" kicking than I did.

I'm a wrestler and rarely kick at all. But I have caught more front kicks than roundhouse. From that I sort of assumed.

[bakxierboxer]

Didn't Cung Lee take out an opponent with a front kick to the liver?

?????
Dunno, but if he did, that'd be ONE!

OTOH, Cung Le IS a bit of an "exception" when compared to most MMA types.

[Lucas]

As much wood as a woodchuck could chuck, if a woodchuck could chuck wood.

[bakxierboxer]

I'm a wrestler and rarely kick at all. But I have caught more front kicks than roundhouse. From that I sort of assumed.

Heh!
My, my..... "how about that!?!

To me, this means that you actually haven't been exposed to ANY "legitimate" kicks.
(as done by an experienced TMA fighter)

Now, all you've got to do is figure out why/how I can say that.

(now, all I have to do is figure out how this thread puts Wing Chun into the "long hand" range/class)
((which actually plays into the reason for my own statement))

[YouKnowWho]

But I have caught more front kicks than roundhouse.

That's interest. It's much easier to grab a stick that swinging at you body (timing is not critical) than to catch a spear that stab at your heart (timing is critical). The front kick coming in as a straight line and leave as a straight line. If you miss that gap, that kick has already been pulled back. The round house kick come in as a curve and leave as a curve. You can catch it before it lands on your body or after it leaves from your body.

You can always move in and run your opponent down (squeeze the space) to counter a round house kick and whether you can catch that kick or not is not important any more. But if you do that to a front kick then you may run into that kick.

I do agree that both front kick and round house kick can be caught. But we may have different opinion on which one is easier to catch than the other. The reason is simple, when you see a round house kick coming at you, you can move in and ignore that kick (since that kick is not in your moving path). If you can move in fast enough, you may catch his leg below the knee (easy to hold). When you see a front kick come in at you, you have to deflect that kick then move in (since that kick is in your moving path). You may catch his ankle which is not easy to hold since his knee is still free. There is just one more step there that will slow down your shooting (if you are a wrestler).

[Mr Punch]

2) A lot of the guys doing MMA were trained in MT as their primary kicking art. MT is heavy on roundhouse kicks and light on everything else.

This is wrong. Yup, they're heavy on roundhouses, but teeps are a staple too, and not to be messed with.

I'm a wrestler and rarely kick at all. But I have caught more front kicks than roundhouse. From that I sort of assumed.

You've been training with people who can't throw good front kicks.

This also raises a question I've had for quite a while...
WHY is it that I've seldom seen front kicks used in MMA?

You mostly watch American MMA? Go back and watch Pride, Shooto, Deep, K1 Max (MMA rules) or whatever. All of the Japanese promotions use fighters who are heavier trained in Thai and Kyokushin/Seidokaikan etc and have and use good front kicks. The latest generation of American MMAers, I think, a stronger base in grappling arts and a more generic approach to striking arts.

[bakxierboxer]

This is wrong. Yup, they're heavy on roundhouses, but teeps are a staple too, and not to be messed with.

You've been training with people who can't throw good front kicks.

There is that, and also "another element".

You mostly watch American MMA? Go back and watch Pride, Shooto, Deep, K1 Max (MMA rules) or whatever. All of the Japanese promotions use fighters who are heavier trained in Thai and Kyokushin/Seidokaikan etc and have and use good front kicks. The latest generation of American MMAers, I think, a stronger base in grappling arts and a more generic approach to striking arts.

I mostly make a point of "not watching" that stuff... although I think I've run across it while channel-surfing.
I still see little in the way of effective/actual MA skills.... and seldom end up watching more than a few minutes of it.

[Mr Punch]

Eh? So what MMA DO you watch?! Most of the Japanese and Japanese trained, Chinese and Thai fighters I've seen in MMA use front kicks and effectively... You're saying you don't watch American MMA, but you don't see front kicks?

[bakxierboxer]

Eh? So what MMA DO you watch?! Most of the Japanese and Japanese trained, Chinese and Thai fighters I've seen in MMA use front kicks and effectively... You're saying you don't watch American MMA, but you don't see front kicks?

Whatever is on late nights.
I don't care enough about the stuff to remember the names of the organizations.

I see altogether too much punching/kicking "at" people, as opposed to actually hitting them.