Detective Dee and the Mystery of the Phantom Flame

[doug maverick]

hollywood has an heirachy, top directors usually get the best script, tsui would fare well here with all the super hero movies he could really cut loose. john woo got luck with face off...because originally the film was suppose to star sly stallone and awwnold....(can you just imagine that lol) and be a futuristic sci fi film...but he was lucky enough to get john travolta and nick cage(who was still acting then and not just performing lol) to be attracted to the script, not always the case...truth is hollywood doesnt know what to do with alot of these hong kong directors...mainl because they dont fully understand their style and vice versa hong kong filmmakers dont understand the studio system...

[GeneChing]

But Face Off was 1997. Times were quite different then. That was the year that Hong Kong was returned to China by the Brits. HK Cinema was blowing up just prior to that. Heck, I was writing for Hong Kong Film Magazine back then. HKFM got off four newsstand issues before folding, which was admirable for such a niche focus, even back then when the newsstands were fat. Hark, Woo, Jackie, Chow Yun Fat - they were on fire back in the late 90s. HK filmmakers were charged up with the imminent control of the PRC and putting out some amazing films. Then it all fizzled out after the PRC took over, but not so much due to communist censorship. There was an exodus of talent and a dearth of inspiration as HK adjusted to the new 'one country, two systems' government.

Now that Mainland China is booming, we're experiencing this new wave of Chinese cinema. Dee is a perfect example of the kind of films China is turning out now. Unlike back in the late 90s, when the game was to break into Hollywood, now it's all about capturing the Chinese box office. Sure, Chinese filmmakers crave global success, but they aren't hungry for it like they were in the late 90s.

[doug maverick]

and they certainly dont need to be, chinese films can easily become like india...bollywood films are certainly not international despite hollywoods attempt too, make it the new thing...but it was such a quick flash in the pan, they maybe got off one or two imports, hoping the success of slumdog would trigger it and then they could get a hold on new cash from indian investors...however what they failed to realize is that americans would know the difference, between a film that was about indians and a true bollywood films.(hey lets face it most americans dont even like to read subs, so you cant blame execs for thinking they wouldnt know the difference) its a very interesting comprehensive study...but the reality is american films are made with broader appeal in mind...and will probably continue to dominate. every time a westerner appears in a chinese film they are always vilified..funny enough the only westerners who've had success as non chinese in leading roles is probably cynthia rothrock ron van clief and this other black star i cant remember his name, but he appeared in a few films as a non villain. doesnt happen much but if chinese films did such a thing they would gain broader appeal.

[Jimbo]

doug,
You might be thinking of Carl Scott. He shared co-billing with Billy Chong in two movies, and before those, had a supporting role in a Bruce Li (Ho Chung-Tao) film. Jim Kelly also had a co-leading role in a HK movie (which was his last movie, I believe).

Another non-Chinese (although not a Westerner) who's had top co-billing in two HK movies is Hiroyuki Sanada. Both of the HK-produced (well, one of them was a HK/Japan co-production) featured him as a good guy. I will point out that he was already a teen idol in Japan at the time, and was really popular in Taiwan when I was there, esp. with girls. But that was back in the '80s. He's gone on to become a very accomplished film star and international stage actor. Unfortunately, most Westerners would only recognize him as the guy who beat on Tom Cruise in The Last Samurai.

I agree that Chinese films would be more popular if they were a bit less Sino-centric. I've noticed that now, more than ever, virtually all the Chinese films are super-partiotic. Watching them when they do play in a theater here in the States feels odd, because they come off like Chinese propaganda. They don't need to fully integrate, but it would be nice to see other images of non-Chinese, and other types of stories, more often. That's probably asking a lot of Mainland films.

But to be truthful, Hollywood really doesn't do Asians justice, either.

[Zenshiite]

Can I ask you guys a question... in the version of this movie I have the ambassador that comes to the capitol at the beginning of the film is referred to as the Ummayad(Muslim caliphate dynasty) ambassador to China, but he clearly looks like a Roman and seems to be speaking Italian or some imitation there of, not Arabic. What's the deal with that?

[Jimbo]

I saw it yesterday, and it was better than I expected. I don't always like Tsui Hark's movies, but IMO, Detective Dee is his best work since the first two Once Upon a Time in China films. Though it would be hard for him to top those.

Sammo Hung did the fight choreo, but the action looks like most of the recent action/MA/wuxia-style movies coming out of China today, i.e., heavy on the wires/FX. But I found this movie more entertaining than most of those movies. It doesn't have the same nationalistic fervor that so many of them seem to have, and it had a good story and is beautifully shot.

[GeneChing]

So did Fast Five....

The Top 10 Everything of 2011
In 54 wide-ranging lists, TIME surveys the highs and lows, the good and the bad, of the past 12 months

3. Detective Dee and the Mystery of the Phantom Flame
By Richard Corliss Wednesday, Dec. 07, 2011
Top 10 Best Movies
Indomina Releasing

Judge Di Renjie, the legendary sleuth of 7th-century China made famous to Western readers in the novels by Robert van Gulik, takes on the case of the flaming monks in this epic martial-arts whodunit from veteran Hong Kong director Tsui Hark (Peking Opera Blues, Once Upon a Time in China). Always a swami of cinematic compression, Tsui Hark can pack reams of exposition and sensation into a dozen pristinely composed shots that take only a few seconds of screen time. His trickster genius is shared by the main characters — the Empress (Carina Lau), her loyal adviser (Li Bingbing) and Detective Dee himself (Andy Lau) — each of whom is supremely adept and understandably suspicious of everyone else. The films boasts nonstop stunt work in the great Hong Kong tradition: tree-hopping, a fierce battle on two galloping horses and plenty of dexterous swordplay, all choreographed by veteran Hong Kong star Sammo Hung. Packed with a magic talking deer, a red-robed river king and characters transformable by acupoints, Detective Dee is a pinwheeling narrative and cinematic delight. We call it Crouching Tiger, Freakin' Masterpiece.

[doug maverick]

did you see fast five gene? it was fantastic...i watched it twice..second time in imax it was even better.

[GeneChing]

It was way too absurd for me. I know, I know, that sounds strange given the absurdities I'm willing to tolerate with kung fu flicks.

Then again, I only saw it on DVD.