Brucey baby still learnt and practised forms!!!

[fiercest tiger]

even though bruce decided to create jkd, he still practised forms. he studied many systems never completeing one and designed his own style and never completed hi own jkd. all concepts and conditioning drills, reflex and sensitivity 2 man drills, dummy and bag work are still like form work.

without the another person jkd is all form like every other style.

boxing combos, footwork are all forms!!!


nothing wrong with forms, you need to have forms to perfect and develop proper skills.


i thought i would just mention this for WORD! :D

peace

bakmeimonk@hotmail.com

[word]

why would you mention this for me? jkd is a good street fighting art but i think that it lacks the deepness that traditinal kung fu has. JKD does have the basic concepts of fighting you know what i mean man- but do u think you're going to spend 20 years researching and doin applications that come from jkd???Forms are great but if u dont have 2 man drills and sensitiivy tthen it is all an endless road that you are travellign down you know what i mean man?

[fiercest tiger]

im not having a go at you, i read a post that you wrote and said you dont need forms. if you havent had a martial art background and wanted to learn how to fight thats where forms comes in. teaches correct body blah blah blah.

later on you can take the forms apart and use what suites you for fighting. most kung fu systems have 2 man drills, single man drills- that was my point ;)

jkd has some really nice training drills, i agree that you have to do drills, but some styles where based around pressure point knowledge and forms where made in order for you to hit the points in the correct manner and for healing purposes. bruce lee never finished a system to learn the points or the advance levels.

forms are there for a good reason, there is really nothing wrong forms and what are you going to do when you get to old to sparr with your younger guys and for your health. then you have to learn some taiji which is form.

just my oppinion buddy. have a safe and happy xmas. :D

peace

bakmeimonk@hotmail.com

[ChitownMantis]

(Bowing In)
I believe that was the reason why bruce lee brought about JKD, because he wanted to get away from traditionalism. We was tried of stances and forms.

A method like the 3 inch punch is something that can be intergrated into any martial art. And if you really think about it he thought of JKD because he had studies different martial art and fighting forms. Because just like others he feelt that if you are out on the street , getting in a house stance is not going to work.

Which I will saying being from Chicago, the average person is not going to care if you are in a horse stance. I feel that even if you learn the forms and specializes tech's , you can still you it in the streets. Just think about it, if you know the basic's of your style or form; that in a sence was the think of JKD and Bruce Lee.

To fight without form or a pre set stance. If I put a c-lock on someone, just me I will not be in a horse or cat stance.

Doing a form or not I still think both methods are valid. And that is my own opinion based on my own expirence and research.
(Bowing Out).

"Fear is the mind killer" The movie Dune

[Inquisitor]

There is more proof that Bruce Lee dismissed "traditionalist" methods of training due to the refusal of Yip Man (and presumably the rest of Yip Man's students) to teach him the rest of Wing Chun...

[ChitownMantis]

(bowing In)
Really, Inquisitor? Very interesting. I thought his fist art was wing chun but I was not sure. I don't have the best memory but I do a lot of research on the martial arts. I think to have no knowledge of the art that you are learning , is not learning at all. But are you saying that bruce moved away from traditionalizism because he was not taught more about wing chun. Please be more detailed. Thank you for the knowledge.
(Bowing Out)

"You are only limited to what your mind put you at in gung fu, knowledge about gung fu is limitless. Have no limits" Self-quote

[Turiyan]

I'm seeing the word form, martial and art thrown around a lot.

Form should define BOUNDARY CONDITIONS.
Boundary conditions allow for creativity and innovation because working within them leads to fruition of creativity and innovation.

"Making things up" isnt so bad if you have ETHICS and MORALS. Ethics in greek, originally meant HABITS. Morals, in my nonmenclature, is the operationalization of ETHICS. For the lay, the application of habits.

Its like comparing Aristolian logic with Hegelian logic (oxymora). One is arithmetic, but timeless. Hegelian logic (oxymora) or Dialectical logic is contectual. But contextual, and tensegretic when coming from a ethical/moral platform.

What good is form without function? Form FOLLOWS function. Its somewhat cosmological. As FORM is the combined "equasion" of, for instance, the X, Y and Z axis in mathematics.

In biotic systems. X, Y and Z represent genetic or cellular components. The FORM, seperate from the concept of END result or eschatology, is the COMBINATION of those components. Not components of these scalar structures. Without FORM you have dysfunction or mutation. Because the code attempts to "make something up" outside the boundary conditions it should operate in.

Its like riff compositions in music. Its rather oxymoronic. Riffs are compositions (a combination of components of a scalar structure), but you dont compose music with riffs. They are simply components of the scalar structure of music. Which technically has no concrete theory.

You do not need to have knowlege of music theory to write or play music. Certainly, you dont have to do eaither to ENJOY music. But it helps in ones UNDERSTANDING of what amounts to "intuitive rules defined by experienced listeners."

Martial is toughy. Art is toughy. Martial art is real toughy. How does one get experienced at Martial? By kicking butt or getting ones butt kicked? Neither. Again, its paradoxical.

Semantics? Probably. Because I dont think enough people have a definite answer. Apart from some mumbo jumbo about peace and love and buddha, and cultivating potentially lethal skills "only for self-defense".

Components without a center are not MUSIC. Form, IMO, is a center, a synthesis or nucleus of components.

Shaolin, for example, is TOTALLY elementary. This statement, has been the result of some conflicts in the past. Mainly because things were not explained enough. Shaolin is composed of (at least used to be) components.

Basics: Stance
Stationary Upper body: Punches,blocks
Footwork: Stance transitions
Advanced footwork: Stepping (patterns)
Basic form: Combine stance transitions with upper body Ie- Horse, fists on hips to bow stance punch.

Now there you have your basic Fa Jing. Which only technically works, when you have that energy stored up FROM the stance holding....

Is form important? You tell me. There are more sophisticated forms out there. But, take a look at the Platonic dialoge SOPHIST and learn a bit more about the classical usage of that word.

Long quote coming up:

"Why should you wonder? It is not merely in art that the body is the soul. In every sphere of life Form is the beginning of things. The rhythmic harmonious gestures of dancing convey, Plato tells us, both rhythm and harmony into the mind. Forms are the food of faith, cried Newman in one of those great moments of sincerity that make us admire and know the man. He was right, though he may not have known how terribly right he was. The Creeds are believed, not because they are rational, but because they are repeated. Yes: Form is everything. It is the secret of life. Find expression for a sorrow,and it will become dear to you. Find expression for a joy, and you intensify its ecstasy. Do you wish to love? Use Love's Litany, and the words will create the yearning from which the world fancies that they spring. Have you a grief that corrodes your heart? Steep yourself in the Language of grief, learn its utterance from Prince Hamlet and Queen Constance, and you will find that mere expression is a mode of consolation, and that Form, which is the birth of passion, is also the death of pain. And so, to return to the sphere of Art, it is Form that creates not merely the critical temperament, but also the aesthetic instinct, that unerring instinct that reveals to one all things under their conditions of beauty. Start with the worship of form, and there is no secret in art that will not be revealed to you, and remember that in criticism, as in creation, temperament is everything, and that it is, not by the time of their production, but by the temperaments to which they appeal, that the schools of art should be historically grouped." --Intentions by oscar wilde
"Rhythm without harmony is imitation" --Aristotle _Poetics_

Anyways, I prefer the term, Martial artifice.
Bahahahahhahahahahahhahahaah.

Turiyan, Brahmin caste, Ordos clan

The REAL taichi:
http://www.wfdesign.com/tc/
http://www.wustyle.com/108.html

[Inquisitor]

It has been maintained by several, including Yip Man's son [Y]Ip Chun and Bruce's friend Hawkins Cheung, that while Bruce studying in the United States he traveled back to Hong Kong and asked to videotape Yip Man so he could finish learning the rest of the Wing Chun system in the U.S. Yip Man refused, and Bruce Lee consequently left the "traditional" methods of training as sort of a way to tell Yip Man "see, I can still finish my training without you."