BTL: bah...hardwork is a troll and should be burned
3H & SR: yea, only thing chin na wise that I regularly got bouncing was some muscle grabs (don't forget 'chin na' includes more than joint manipulation) but bear hugs, chokes and the occasional arm bar/shoulder lock were the rule
"George never did wake up. And, even all that talking didn't make death any easier...at least not for us. Maybe, in the end, all you can really hope for is that your last thought is a nice one...even if it's just about the taste of a nice cold beer."
"If you find the right balance between desperation and fear you can make people believe anything"
"Is enlightenment even possible? Or, did I drive by it like a missed exit?"
It's simpler than you think.
I could be completely wrong"