OT: does obama bring change?

[1bad65]

You mean like what was done with Max Cleland and John Kerry? Why don't we throw in Hillary Clinton while we're at it.

What did they say about Max Cleland and John Kerry that was unture?

[1bad65]

SLF, you can't even prove Newt's wife died!

And you're saying THE NAVY got it wrong about Bush?

EVERY ONE of those imprisoned with McCain said he acted with honor and in no way corroborated with the enemy.

Yet you know the real truth?!?!

[1bad65]

Show me definitive proof that pretty much every article I've read on this is wrong. The she was handed divorce papers while she was on her deathbed. And what would be the difference anyway? The man's a scumbag.

Show me ONE article that says she was 'served papers while on her deathbed'.

The difference between being on a 'deathbed' and being in recovery is a pretty big difference.

[Drake]

Show me ONE article that says she was 'served papers while on her deathbed'.

The difference between being on a 'deathbed' and being in recovery is a pretty big difference.

Geez! That's almost like cheating on your wife while she's suffering from cancer! Terrible!

[Siu Lum Fighter]

Originally Posted by 1bad65
SLF, you can't even prove Newt's wife died!

And you're saying THE NAVY got it wrong about Bush?

EVERY ONE of those imprisoned with McCain said he acted with honor and in no way corroborated with the enemy.

Yet you know the real truth?!?!

Point by point:

She had cancer and it wasn't clear whether or not she would make it. But does it matter!? I can't believe you are defending that putz!
He's a serial wife dumper. He cheated on both his first and second wives. There's no disputing this. The guy's a slimball:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Story?id=2937633

And well...the truth is McCain did "sing like a canary" because there are official records that show this:

http://www.powmccain.org/?page_id=45

Here's an excerpt from the next link (the McCain people worked hard at covering this stuff up)

This information comes from U.S. intercepts of North Vietnamese broadcasts to American servicemen in South Vietnam around 31 October 1967, as well as from dispatches by North Vietnamese and Cuban correspondents — using material from a Nhan Dan (the central organ, the voice of the Communist Party of Vietnam, then and now) correspondent who interviewed John McCain. This material was published on 9 November 1967. The latter were backed up by the intercepts of these messages by the Message Center of the U.S. Department of Defense National Military Command Center, dated 11 November 1967

http://centab.wordpress.com/2008/09/...th-vietnamese/

[Siu Lum Fighter]

And the Navy did get it wrong because the only person to come forward with exact details of the event was Bush himself after he was rescued. It wasn't until years later in 1988 or so when Chester Mierzejewksi gave his version of what happened. And it's so obvious Chester's not lying! Which was why it was such a scandal at the time. Bush, on the other hand, has made a career out of lying just like son has.

[1bad65]

She had cancer and it wasn't clear whether or not she would make it. But does it matter!?

Yes it does matter. You said "deathbed". She didn't even die!

And well...the truth is McCain did "sing like a canary" because there are official records that show this:

Wordpress.com and powmccain.org are not OFFICIAL sources at all. I want official sources. You know, like the ones from THE US NAVY I provided to back up my case for GHW Bush.

[1bad65]

And the Navy did get it wrong because the only person to come forward with exact details of the event was Bush himself after he was rescued.

Wrong again. The US Navy document I quoted said this: "While Bush anxiously waited four hours in his inflated raft, several fighters circled protectively overhead until he was rescued by the lifeguard submarine, USS Finback."

Those pilots and crewmen were witnesses. Even the other two men in the plane with Chester Mierzejewksi were witnesses!!! FYI, the military does not award medals like the Distinguished Flying Cross without witnesses testifying to the person's actions. Ask Drake or anyone else with military service.

[1bad65]

I did some searching about that book SLF is quoting, and lets just say it's a mess.

Webster Tarpley, one of the authors maintains that the events of 9/11 were engineered by a rogue network of the military industrial complex and intelligence agencies. His writings and speeches describe a model of false flag terror operations by a rogue network in the military/intelligence sector working with moles in the private sector and in corporate media, and locates such contemporary false flag operations in a historical context stretching back in the English speaking world to at least the "gunpowder plot" in England in 1605.

The book, "George Bush: The Unauthorized Biography" was published by Executive Intelligence Review, run by Lyndon LaRouche. For those of you who don't know who LaRouch is, he served 15 years in prison for conspiracy to commit mail fraud and tax code violations.

[1bad65]

But Tarpley isn't too fond of others either:

In August, 2007, Webster Tarpley issued the Kennebunkport Warning, which claimed an impending "false flag attack" in America in the "coming months." (He was quite wrong) Controversy ensued after Jamilla El-Shafei, Cindy Sheehan, Dahlia Wasfi, and Ann Wright issued a joint-statement claiming that they did not sign this Kennebunkport Warning. In response to this denial, Tarpley sent out a widely distributed and highly publicized email in which he characterized Cindy Sheehan, Anne Wright and other anti-war activists as "lying in appalling fashion" and "wretched individuals."

In January 2008, Tarpley became one of the first critics to assert that Barack Obama is actually managed by right-wing powerbrokers. Tarpley claimed that a shift in power had taken place in the ruling class, with the Zbigniew Brzezinski faction and its presidential candidate Obama ascendant over the lame-duck neocons. The targets of US imperialism would now be Russia, China and its ally Pakistan, instead of Iraq, Iran and Syria. He developed these themes in his two books on Obama.


So; do we believe the US Navy, or a tinfoil-hat wearing loon?

[Drake]

For one, you can't recommend yourself for an award. Well, you CAN, I guess, but it won't make it past the orderly room.

Secondly, awards such as BSM and higher usually require third party narratives along with eyewitness testimonies. This stuff is HIGHLY scrutinized.

[Siu Lum Fighter]

1bad65,

I only posted the link to Webster Tarpley's book because it was the most readily available source. Remember, I'm not a fanatic right-winger like you who has all the time in the world to sit there and blanket the thread with 10 comments for every one of mine. The Mierzejewski story did not originate with Tarpley's book. Here are some other links:

http://www.nationalreview.com/kerry/...0408231323.asp

http://www.usvetdsp.com/story46.htm

In the first article it has the official report at the time:

According to the intelligence report approved sometime later by the squadron leader (it was oddly undated), Bush's plane was enveloped in "smoke and flames," and "Bush and one other person were seen to bail out... Bush's chute opened and he landed safely in water... The chute of the other person ... who bailed out did not open." The plane crashed into the sea and sank. Both John Delaney and Ted White were reported missing in action, presumed dead. The report added a cautionary note: "Bush has not yet been returned to squadron by rescue sub, so this information is incomplete."

This "official" story was approved by the squadron leader. The funny thing is a couple of the guys in the squadron, including the executive officer, Lt. Legare Hole, said that Mierzejewski would have had the best view of what happened. Mierzejewski said he saw a plume of smoke and then nothing. The plane was still flying, everything was fine. All of a sudden our former commander in chief cracked under pressure and bailed out like a weasel in order to save his own neck. His two crew members met a horrible fate. Weren't we talking about karma earlier? I wonder what his will be, that puke. I love how he got the Distinguished Flying Cross basically for being shot down and having to be rescued
What a d@uchebag.

Oh, and here's an excerpt from an article about McCain's adventures in N. Vietnam.

The following is McCain's own admission of collaboration in an article he wrote, printed May 14, 1973 in U.S. News and World Report:

"I think it was on the fourth day [after being shot down] that two guards came in, instead of one. One of them pulled back the blanket to show the other guard my injury. I looked at my knee. It was about the size, shape and color of a football. I remembered that when I was a flying instructor a fellow had ejected from his plane and broken his thigh. He had gone into shock, the blood had pooled in his leg, and he died, which came as quite a surprise to us a man dying of a broken leg.

Then I realized that a very similar thing was happening to me.

"When I saw it, I said to the guard, `O.K., get the officer.'

"An officer came in after a few minutes. It was the man that we came to know very well as `The Bug.' He was a psychotic torturer, one of the worst fiends that we had to deal with. I said, `O.K., I'll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital.'"

McCain claims it was only a coincidence that, about the same time he was begging to be taken to a hospital, the Vietnamese learned his father was Admiral John S. McCain, Jr., commander of all U.S. forces in Europe and soon to be commander of all U.S. forces in the Pacific, including Vietnam.

McCain has admitted that he survived only because the Vietnamese learned who his father was and rushed him to a hospital where his wounds were eagerly treated. He has also conceded that the Vietnamese repeatedly threatened to withhold much needed operations unless he would give them information.

The former POW admitted in the U.S. News and World Report article that the Vietnamese usually left other U.S. prisoners with similar wounds to die, not wishing to waste medication on them. McCain pointed out "there were hardly any amputees among the prisoners who came back because the North Vietnamese just would not give medical treatment to someone who was badly injured. They weren't going to waste their time."

The communists figured that because POW McCain's father was of such high military rank, McCain was of royalty and the governing circle. They bragged that they had captured "the crown prince" and treated him as a "special prisoner."

http://www.usvetdsp.com/mccainpic.htm

HAHA!! "The Crown Prince"!! What a little p!ssant fool. He's a worm just like Bush. "I want to save my own pathetic little puke existence even if it means selling out all of my values and my country." Any guy who would decide to have Sarah Palin as his running mate is a sleazy little player who's always going to be a sell-out when it means getting a leg up in the world. He always tried to play up his dad's name but he could never quit be a winner like him. He sucked as a pilot too. Crashing fighters left and right.

You know, even Ron and Nancy didn't like him anymore after he callously divorced his first wife for a trophy wife. These are all real swell guys. The kind of guys who don't give a rat cr@p about this country, I can tell you that much.

[1bad65]

The Mierzejewski story did not originate with Tarpley's book. Here are some other links:

Actually it did. The national review link said Sidney Blumenthal (later known for his lies about Ken Starr) first mentioned it in October 1992. The usvetdsp.com link is from 1997. The book was first published in Jan 1992.

As for your lies about McCain, your timeline does not add up. You claimed McCain 'sang' in exchange for medical treatment. McCain was shot down and captured on Oct 26, 1967. By Oct 28th, Amercain papers had printed that Admiral McCains son had been shot down and captured in Vietnam. McCain "confessed", (after severe torture which left him classified as 100% disabled by the military) in August 1968, saying in part "I am a black criminal and I have performed the deeds of an air pirate. I almost died and the Vietnamese people saved my life, thanks to the doctors." So he had already received treatment BEFORE his "confession".

[1bad65]

SLF,

I have one simple question for you: Why are you dragging two men's names through the mud who served honorably in the military, one of which was a POW, and both of whom were decorated for going above and beyond the call of duty?

[Exadon]

A change we can believe...and see!
Obama's hair color that is.

I would hate to be in his shoes right now...I am sure my hair would turn gray as well
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29524174