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Thread: OT: does obama bring change?

  1. #1
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    Arrow OT: does obama bring change?

    most everyone believes obama is here to change america, end global warming, and bring peace and prosperity to the whole world!!! lets see for ourselves and make our own minds up... some examples of the change we can believe in.

    torture flights... http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/O...ow/4067338.cms

    http://obamabarack.blogspot.com/2009...e-flights.html

    civilian labor program... http://www.army.mil/usapa/epubs/pdf/r210_35.pdf

    an added twist... http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill...?bill=h111-645

    yet wait... http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Stor...7662-858254656 aren't these the same folks that own a private prison in texas?? http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/02/01/texas.prison.riot/ and http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_162932.html and yet it is not a co-incidence that obama and cheney are related... http://www.nypost.com/seven/10172007...ma__cheney.htm and http://www.simplydumb.com/2007/09/12...-bush-related/

    now if all that isn't enough to ponder... perhaps it's the change of the declaration of independence? http://content.usatoday.com/communit.../01/61522608/1 and http://www.dailypaul.com/node/79552 now that would be any lawyers headache...

    obama speaks out against wall street greed, but what about... http://www.boston.com/news/nation/wa...stPop_Emailed7 got hypocrisy?

    and what about the change in his cabinet? is it really change or is it simply recycling? http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/...n4578937.shtml alot of familiar faces i tell ya!!!

    so there is a short snippet of what all this change we are to believe in.

  2. #2
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    are you saying he should reverse 8 years in 2 weeks?

    also, rendition flights don't always mete out as "torture".

    Often it is a way of superseding the non-existence of extradition treaties in the case of known and wanted criminals.

    do you have a problem with that? I only have a problem with it if severe errors are made, otherwise, round em up and who cares what happens to em.

    the harder it is for criminals to operate the better.

    also, much of that is op-ed stuff, policies that haven't been dealt with yet etc etc.

    I think your expectations of the man are a bit high maybe?
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    Now, I do not know where everything Obama is going to do will end up...but at least get your stories and timeline straight....and understand that a lot of things in the ship of state continue on until someone explicitly stops it...

    for example, a KBR contract awarded 01/24/2009...and WHEN did Obama take office....and the news of the award was a SATURDAY...that is when many in DC slip things by so it won't make the news.... but halting a contract on day 3 of his term may not be realistic.

    The rendition flights...too soon to tell..but the work details..the document is dated 2005.

    The prisons...well, unless it is a FEDERAL prison, there is not much a president can do about it...the real power lies with the Judicial branch to say that such things are not allowed.

    Granted, there are a lot of things no one cares for now...but the first thing about finding yourself in a hole is to stop digging. Seems that many of the things done in the last 10 days have been aimed at doing that...and also aimed at coming up with a plan for something that previous actions have either caused or had no positive impact upon.

    The complaint about retreads...well, if you go with pristine people, you get no baggage...AND NO EXPERIENCE in how to navigate DC and government.

    The issue that is amazing is just how many people have major tax problems. I can be pretty sure that this issue is on BOTH sides of the aisle - Democrat and Republican.

    Now I can see a big part of it being greedy and not wanting to pay any more in taxes than they have to....and dragging it out forever.

    But I can also see a tax code that is so complicated that it takes a full vetting by tons of journalists and investigators to uncover things.

    Sounds like a round of ethics an honesty for everyone accompanied by a simplification of the tax code would be in order...but what is NOT going to happen....

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    and lets have it for some more change thats in the wind...

    obama wants less secrey... http://www.fas.org/blog/secrecy/2009/01/a_new_era.html yet what about obamas new clinton(remember change folks) era attorney general? http://www.nowpublic.com/world/inter...eric-holder-30 and http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10110922-38.html

    interesting to say the least... does anyone else have some change they know of?

  5. #5
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    seriously, you live in America. it runs on a huge bureaucracy and has a huge population.

    are your really so naive as to expect large sweeping changes into happy smurf land in 2 weeks?

    really?

    you got more hope than Obama!
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  6. #6
    Of course Obama doesn't bring "Change"....However what he does bring is a vast improvement over the previous admin.

    Daschle is proof that Obama does not strive for true change but instead is looking to regain some of the gains we made during the Clinton years. Daschle did the right thing by stepping down. Personally I have no idea if his tax problems was a mistake or not.....don't care. My concern is that if it was a mistake it was a big one and one wonders about his compentancy.

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    Don't blame me, I voted for Ron Paul.
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    obama won't get much done with the way the economy is going. i am betting he will be 1 term president.
    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho Mantis View Post
    Genes too busy rocking the gang and scarfing down bags of cheetos while beating it to nacho ninjettes and laughing at the ridiculous posts on the kfforum. In a horse stance of course.

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    I think he's a phoney liberal, just like Bush was a phoney conservative.

    Let's see..
    • he's filled his cabinet with war hawks and "bio-tech yes men".
    • Cites WMD bull**** over Iran
    • Talks tough with Russia as if they're bullies when it's already been established that Georgia was the agressor
    • Thinks the Patriot Act gives law enforcement "the tools they need"
    • Refuses to impeach Bush & Co. (and Biden predictably flip flopped on the issue himself. What a difference pre and post election makes)
    • Won't keep his word on Iraq
    • Favors war with Afghanistan and Pakistan
    • Already has blood on his hands in Pakistan
    • Gonna "spend us out of debt" (lol)
    • Appointed Hillary Clinton to Secretary of State... of all people..
    • HUGE spender favoring bailouts
    • Pals around with Zbigniew Brzezinski


    That's not change, that's bull$hit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    like that old japanese zen monk that grabs white woman student titties to awaken them to zen, i grab titties of kung fu people to awaken them to truth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Canzonieri View Post
    You can discuss discrepancies and so on in people's posts without ripping them apart. So easy to do sitting behind a computer screen anonymously, but in person I'm sure you'd be very different, unless you're a total misanthrope without any friends.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mas Judt View Post
    Don't blame me, I voted for Ron Paul.
    I second that one
    BQ

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    Quote Originally Posted by GLW View Post
    The issue that is amazing is just how many people have major tax problems. I can be pretty sure that this issue is on BOTH sides of the aisle - Democrat and Republican.

    Now I can see a big part of it being greedy and not wanting to pay any more in taxes than they have to....and dragging it out forever.

    But I can also see a tax code that is so complicated that it takes a full vetting by tons of journalists and investigators to uncover things.

    Sounds like a round of ethics an honesty for everyone accompanied by a simplification of the tax code would be in order...but what is NOT going to happen....
    I don't recall anyone in the Bush Cabinet having tax issues.

    It's aggrivating to see the same elected officials calling for higher taxes, being the ones getting caught not paying theirs. I seem to recall Joe Biden saying that 'paying taxes is patriotic'. So according to the Vice President; Tom Daschle, Tim Geithner, and Charlie Rangel are unpatriotic.

    As for simplifying it, I've not seen ANY Democrat call for a flat-tax or for simplifying the tax code. Lamar Alexander is for a flat tax and Alan Keyes is for abolishing the income tax, and they are both Republicans.
    When given the choice between big business and big government, choose big business. Big business never threw millions of people into gas chambers, but big government did.

    "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men" -Samuel Adams

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    are you saying he should reverse 8 years in 2 weeks?
    Obama himself set the high expectations.

    Of course within days of being elected he suddenly lowered the bar.

    Anyone want to bet that the national debt will be higher in 4 years than it was when Bush left office?
    When given the choice between big business and big government, choose big business. Big business never threw millions of people into gas chambers, but big government did.

    "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men" -Samuel Adams

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1bad65 View Post
    Anyone want to bet that the national debt will be higher in 4 years than it was when Bush left office?
    If Obama gets the blank check he's basically asking for, I am not sure as to how the debt won't be larger than Bush's.

    Unless I'm seriously missing something... Obama wants to expand the size of the government (which = more $$), 8 Billion was it for the stimulus package?, still in Iraq for a while, "maybe Iran" (and I have no idea what's going on in Iran anyway. I know we started to go in there in the last 6 months but the media has been really silent about anything else), wants increased efforts in Afghanistan, we're already bombing Pakistan (not sure what the plan is there)...

    Even if by some sort of amazing luck the stimulus package and tax cuts do exactly what Obama says they'll do, we're still supporting an over-bloated government (with more bloat on the way), giving out god knows how much in foreign aide, supporting possibly 4 wars; definitely 2, and to top it all off, we're borrowing a metric ton of money at the beginning of it all. Oh yeah, don't forget carbon taxing, either...
    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    like that old japanese zen monk that grabs white woman student titties to awaken them to zen, i grab titties of kung fu people to awaken them to truth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Canzonieri View Post
    You can discuss discrepancies and so on in people's posts without ripping them apart. So easy to do sitting behind a computer screen anonymously, but in person I'm sure you'd be very different, unless you're a total misanthrope without any friends.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kymus View Post
    If Obama gets the blank check he's basically asking for, I am not sure as to how the debt won't be larger than Bush's.

    Unless I'm seriously missing something... Obama wants to expand the size of the government (which = more $$), 8 Billion was it for the stimulus package?,...
    Exactly.

    Remember, some people saw this coming BEFORE the election.
    When given the choice between big business and big government, choose big business. Big business never threw millions of people into gas chambers, but big government did.

    "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men" -Samuel Adams

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kymus View Post
    ...8 Billion was it for the stimulus package?,...
    Are these things going to 'stimulate' the economy and create jobs?

    $2 billion earmark to re-start FutureGen, a near-zero emissions coal power plant in Illinois that the Department of Energy defunded last year because it said the project was inefficient.

    A $246 million tax break for Hollywood movie producers to buy motion picture film.

    $650 million for the digital television converter box coupon program.

    $88 million for the Coast Guard to design a new polar icebreaker (arctic ship).

    $448 million for constructing the Department of Homeland Security headquarters.

    $248 million for furniture at the new Homeland Security headquarters.

    $600 million to buy hybrid vehicles for federal employees.

    $400 million for the Centers for Disease Control to screen and prevent STD's.

    $1.4 billion for rural waste disposal programs.

    $125 million for the Washington sewer system.

    $150 million for Smithsonian museum facilities.

    $1 billion for the 2010 Census, which has a projected cost overrun of $3 billion.

    $75 million for "smoking cessation activities."

    $200 million for public computer centers at community colleges.

    $75 million for salaries of employees at the FBI.

    $25 million for tribal alcohol and substance abuse reduction.

    $500 million for flood reduction projects on the Mississippi River.

    $10 million to inspect canals in urban areas.

    $6 billion to turn federal buildings into "green" buildings.

    $500 million for state and local fire stations.

    $650 million for wildland fire management on forest service lands.

    $1.2 billion for "youth activities," including youth summer job programs.

    $88 million for renovating the headquarters of the Public Health Service.

    $412 million for CDC buildings and property.

    $500 million for building and repairing National Institutes of Health facilities in Bethesda, Maryland.

    $160 million for "paid volunteers" at the Corporation for National and Community Service.

    $5.5 million for "energy efficiency initiatives" at the Department of Veterans Affairs National Cemetery Administration.

    $850 million for Amtrak.

    $100 million for reducing the hazard of lead-based paint.

    $75 million to construct a "security training" facility for State Department Security officers when they can be trained at existing facilities of other agencies.

    $110 million to the Farm Service Agency to upgrade computer systems.

    $200 million in funding for the lease of alternative energy vehicles for use on military installations.

    I think my favorite is the tax break for Hollywood movie producers. That Obama is really standing up for the 'little guy'.

    Where is that tax cut 95% of us were promised?

    http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/...ies/index.html
    When given the choice between big business and big government, choose big business. Big business never threw millions of people into gas chambers, but big government did.

    "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men" -Samuel Adams

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