OT: does obama bring change?

[1bad65]

The difference being is that Private Citizen Limbaugh yields massive amounts of power over politicians today whereas Private Citizen Edwards has no power what-so-ever.

Just STFU.

If you think a talk show host has as much (or more) political power than an ex-Senator and VP candidate, you're even dumber than I thought.

[Drake]

you assume he's guilty because of your own prejudice though as indicated by your posts.

I assume you're not a lawyer either.

I don't know if you're a criminal in any capacity or not, it's really not important, and neither is john Edwards political career. lol

Do us both a favor and don't put words in my mouth. I haven't time to write lengthy responses to assumptions based on things I never said.

[BoulderDawg]

If you think a talk show host has as much (or more) political power than an ex-Senator and VP candidate, you're even dumber than I thought.

You make a statement like that about Rush Limbaugh and expect anyone to believe it? Not even conservatives here buy that fantasy!

[1bad65]

GLW,

I don't so much look at it as a Left vs Right on Edwards, in terms of voters.

He was in 3rd before the affair rumors even started. He had ran for VP before he even strarted the affair.

I look at it this way; he was a politician quite popular in his home State who won a statewide race (Senate). He was put on a Presidential ticket with a guy who shared his biggest flaw, being a rich elitist. He was running a distant 3rd in the next Presidential primaries when a scandal hit that pretty much destroyed his political career.

I say "pretty much" because you never know. For example, Marion Barry got caught on tape smoking crack with a hooker, and repeatedly not filing tax returns. Yet, he retook the same office he held before those scandals.

[1bad65]

Well, the paternity issue may be fixing to be solved.

"John Edwards' ex-mistress is reportedly interested in administering a DNA test to determine who is the father of her 1-year-old daughter after Edwards' wife, Elizabeth, sparked fresh questions over whether it might be her husband.

Pigeon O'Brien, a former close friend of Hunter's who publicly questioned Edwards' account of the affair last year, said in an e-mail to FOXNews.com that she didn't know whether Hunter is seeking a paternity test. But she added: "It all has to do with [Elizabeth Edwards'] book and the resulting chaos."

In her book, "Resilience," due out next week, Elizabeth Edwards calls Hunter's life "pathetic" and writes that she threw up when she learned of her husband's affair.

A source reportedly told the Enquirer that Hunter decided to abandon the "cover-up" over the paternity of her daughter after learning about the contents of Elizabeth Edwards' book, in which she reportedly refers to the baby only as "it" and does not name Hunter.

While Andrew Young, a former Edwards campaign aide, claimed to be the father of Frances Hunter, another former campaign worker told FOXNews.com last summer that he and Hunter had "no relationship." The birth certificate for Frances Quinn Hunter does not list a father."

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...dwards-speaks/

You gotta love Elizabeth Edwards calling the kid "It". That's too funny. What's that old saying about a woman scorned?

Maybe they can do the DNA test on the Maury Show!

[BoulderDawg]

Frankly I could care less who's the daddy. I do find it strange that these people, as old as they are, do not know enough to use birth control. Especially in that situation.

Anyway I remember when Ms. Edwards called up Anne Coulter on a public talk show and aired dirty laundry...now this book. One has to wonder what she has to gain by bringing all of this as public as she has. It's not like she needs the money.

I don't know. I think this book will sell a few copies in the next couple of weeks then totally drop off the radar.....a victim of "Who cares".

Anyway, John Edwards was a public figure and has probably had passes made to him in the past by much younger women. I wonder what was so special about this one. Why not an 18 year old campaign worker?

[1bad65]

Frankly I could care less who's the daddy. I do find it strange that these people, as old as they are, do not know enough to use birth control. Especially in that situation.

Only abstinence works 100% of the time.

Anyway, John Edwards was a public figure and has probably had passes made to him in the past by much younger women. I wonder what was so special about this one. Why not an 18 year old campaign worker?

You know about as much about women as you do about Indians.

[Water Dragon]

Only abstinence works 100% of the time.



You know about as much about women as you do about Indians.

Hey now, just cause women don't make passes at you...

When we gonna get that beer, Bro?

[GLW]

I love this "elitist" label that gets thrown around. It is typically done to paint a person as too intellectual, too rich, etc... So we end up with Bozos electing someone they think would be OK to have a beer with.

Well, newsflash, just about everyone of the yahoos in Washington are elitists. McCain definitely was....son of privilege - had he not been the son of his father, his chances of being the pilot he got to be would have been ZERO.

Bush - come on now ...both I and II...

and so on... Clinton was a bit of one. It is not like ANYONE playing at that level of politics actually associates with people who buy goods at Target on a regular basis.

And personally, I WANT a person who is smart (and honest)...and hopefully smarter than I am.

As for Marion Barry and his arrest and then getting re-elected....that is the unfortunate truth of a representative democracy. People can elect who they want.

Let's put it in the other side. Tom Delay used to be my Congressman. I voted against him each and every time. When he was in business, he was underhanded and unethical in his dealings. When he first got elected, he and his brother were working money scams with influence. The brother became a liability and Tom threw him to the wolves. As a junior rep. he was laughed at by his own party as being the "Bug man" but he set about building a money and political machine so he could take over.

He was one of the most arrogant and ethically challenged individuals I have ever read about. Sitting in an obvious no smoking area in a DC restaurant, one of the staff told him he was in a no-smoking area and in violation of a government ordinance....his reply "I AM the government" Now THAT is an A$$...

But, the people in my district kept re-electing him. Funny how no one who ever did business with him back in the day would vote for him....for why, there were a couple of very well done Houston Press in depth stories on him...back before h got enough power to stop them from being published.

[Drake]

Do you even know the criteria for becoming a military pilot? I'll give you a hint... mummy and daddy have nothing to do with it, unless maybe if daddy was a military pilot before, still had contacts in the selection process, and managed to convince his buddy to select McCain who was qualified for the training anyway.

Being a pilot during the Vietnam War was not among the most desireable of positions. A LOT of them died.

Now Bush/Cheney/Limbaugh.... I'll agree they definitely pulled strings. Limbaugh makes me sick with how he "dodged" the draft. And Bush Jr. disgraced his father by hiding out in the NG and missing most of his drills anyway. Bush Sr. might not have been the best Pres., but at least he served with honor.

[GLW]

From the US Veteran Dispatch :

“McCain's grades were "marginal." He drew so many demerits for breaking curfew and other discipline issues that he graduated fifth from the bottom of the class of 1958. Despite his low "class standing," and no doubt because of the influence of his family of famous Admirals, McCain was leap-frogged ahead of more qualified applicants and granted a coveted slot to be trained as a navy pilot.”


From the Washington Post :

“Controversy has surrounded a series of crashes involving planes piloted by John McCain while serving in the U.S. Navy. In his autobiography, the Republican presidential candidate maintained that a couple of the accidents were caused by engine failure. But an official investigation by the Naval Aviation Safety Center makes clear that the first accident, in March 1960, was caused exclusively by pilot error…..

The official Navy report into the Corpus Christi accident on March 12, 1960, concludes that the AD-6 Skyraider trainer crashed because McCain failed to "maintain an airspeed above the stall speed." It attributed the accident to "the preoccupation of the pilot coupled with a power setting too low to maintain level flight." The single-engine prop plane sank to the bottom of Corpus Christi Bay. McCain was rescued by a helicopter after swimming to the surface.
The accident report excluded a series of other possible factors, including engine failure and disorientation of the pilot due to vertigo. It recorded pilot error as "the sole contributing factor" to the accident. A copy of the report was obtained by The Washington Post from the Democratic National Committee, which conducted research at the Naval Historical Center in Washington.
… McCain had another accident with a T-2 trainer jet in November 1965, while flying between New York City and Norfolk, Va. The Naval Aviation Safety Center was unable to determine the precise cause of the accident or the degree of pilot error. McCain wrote later that his engine "flamed out" and he had to eject.
In his autobiography, McCain recalls another mishap around December 1961 when "I knocked down some power lines while flying too low over southern Spain. My daredevil clowning had cut off electricity to a great many Spanish homes and created a small international incident." He landed his Skyraider back on the USS Intrepid after the incident, which does not appear to have triggered a safety investigation.”

[Drake]

Full story:

Naval training, first marriage, and Vietnam assignment

John McCain's early military career began when he was commissioned an ensign and started two and a half years of training at Pensacola to become a naval aviator. While there, he earned a reputation as a partying man. He completed flight school in 1960, and became a naval pilot of ground-attack aircraft, assigned to A-1 Skyraider squadrons aboard the aircraft carriers USS Intrepid and USS Enterprise in the Caribbean and Mediterranean Seas. McCain began as a sub-par flier who was at times careless and reckless; during the early-to-mid 1960s, the planes he was flying crashed twice and once collided with power lines, but he received no major injuries. His aviation skills improved over time, and he was seen as a good pilot, albeit one who tended to "push the envelope" in his flying.

On July 3, 1965, McCain married Carol Shepp, a model originally from Philadelphia. McCain adopted her two young children Douglas and Andrew. He and Carol then had a daughter named Sidney.

McCain requested a combat assignment, and was assigned to the aircraft carrier USS Forrestal flying A-4 Skyhawks. His combat duty began when he was 30 years old, in summer 1967, when Forrestal was assigned to a bombing campaign, Operation Rolling Thunder, during the Vietnam War. McCain and his fellow pilots became frustrated by micromanagement from Washington, and he would later write that "In all candor, we thought our civilian commanders were complete idiots who didn't have the least notion of what it took to win the war."

By then a lieutenant commander, McCain was almost killed on July 29, 1967, when he was near the center of the Forrestal fire. He escaped from his burning jet and was trying to help another pilot escape when a bomb exploded; McCain was struck in the legs and chest by fragments. The ensuing fire killed 134 sailors and took 24 hours to control. With the Forrestal out of commission, McCain volunteered for assignment with the USS Oriskany, another aircraft carrier employed in Operation Rolling Thunder. Once there, he would be awarded the Navy Commendation Medal and the Bronze Star for missions flown over North Vietnam.



Context helps. And if you know any military pilots, you'd agree that his career isn't terribly unusual. Even Army pilots are known for being a bit reckless.

[GLW]

Gotta love apologists...

5th from the BOTTOM of his academy class. Granted, someone has to be in those slots...but rarely do they get prized positions like McCain did. Given having his father and grandfather as admirals and graduates of the academy and all that goes with those ties... influence is pretty likely.

Pilot error in the first crash...some would learn from that. I mean, you are not even out of training and you wreck an expensive plane... But if you are John McCain, you learn nothing from that. You blame it on the plane and then you go off and lose another recklessly ...even by his own admission...hot dogging it.

Sorry, context does NOT help in those two crashes. The one on the Forrestal...that is something that could happen to any naval person.... but you still have poor showing in the Academy...unless you count the reputation he developed as a partier...and then the AVOIDABLE loss of two planes before he ever got to actual combat duty.

Sorry...his record on that does not wash.

[Drake]

I've met a lot of reckless/insane pilots. Could be worse... could have been the recent AF blunder where they transported nuke warheads across the US, violating virtually every treaty out there. Could have also been any of the recent series of military crashes. And don't forget the Marine ski slope incident where a good number of civilians were killed by a reckless pirate.

I'm not condoning his behavior...but I AM saying it's not uncommon. And I don't think flying missions over N. Vietnam is much of a reward... sounds more like a suicide mission.

[Drake]

Oh, and regarding his class ranking... now, Wikipedia (yeah, I'm aware) says that he had a conflict with his superior. Having been stuck in military schools for the last year due to my change from NCO to officer, I can personally attest to how that can affect your ranking. Charisma and getting along with your TAC goes a LOOONG way.

I simply don't put him on the same level as Bush Jr, who blatantly disregarded his duty.