Are bil jee elbows the most overused of all wing chun techniques?

[edseas2]

How nice of you to respond to an answer to a question Tom asked me!

I have the feeling, however, that your answer is completely unrelated to Tom's question.

We'll see...

Ed

[Tom Kagan]

Unless your elbow functions differently than my own then its movement is predictable and, therefore, I would be able to ascertain what you can do with your elbow.

Does that answer your question?

Ed

Have you considered that the motion of what your own elbow can and cannot do is limited by your thinking?

[edseas2]

Yes - if you mean limited by the fact that its a human elbow...

Ed

[Tom Kagan]

Yes - if you mean limited by the fact that its a human elbow...

Ed

And you know what can and cannot be done with an elbow and it's definitely not stick and follow?

[edseas2]

And you know what can and cannot be done with an elbow and it's definitely not stick and follow?

Oh no...I believe that it can stick and follow unless I just hit something with it because then, ipso facto, after the target is struck I will lose contact BUT, I could always regain contact... but immediately after the strike the contact will be lost - maybe for a split second, maybe longer...thoughts?

Ed

[Tom Kagan]

Oh no...I believe that it can stick and follow unless I just hit something with it because then, ipso facto, after the target is struck I will lose contact BUT, I could always regain contact... but immediately after the strike the contact will be lost - maybe for a split second, maybe longer...thoughts?

Ed

Are you recanting your original assertion that you can't stick and follow with an elbow?

[edseas2]

Are you recanting your original assertion that you can't stick and follow with an elbow?

Not at all. this is what I asked (verbatim):

"Is it physically possible for you to "stick" after throwing an elbow?"

Perhaps, for the purposes of clarity I should have said "Is it possible for you to "stick" IMMEDIATELY after throwing an elbow?"

But, I was hoping that this would be picked up on for discussion and I'm glad to see that it was...

Ed

[taojkd]

"Is it physically possible for you to "stick" after throwing an elbow?"

Is it possible to stick after throwing (and landing) a punch? At this point, if i have landed a punch, the opponent usually (starts) to fall over. Now if that had been an elbow, then nothing has changed. Hence why i dont see why sticking to an opponent with a a striking arm is important (neither does the kuen kuits). Now, the other bridge hand should. But at that point what does that bridge care if the other hand landed a punch or an elbow. As long as control is made with the other bridge hand.

for example.
Kuo Sao/Elbow -> Inside Pak Dar

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F38SJyHKH94
(at about 1 min he steps in with an elbow, traps his opponents hands down)

[edseas2]

Simple answer:

wrong!


Ed

[taojkd]

Simple answer:
wrong!

I love how you tell people they are just "wrong", and "get a real sifu" and "i'm gonna quote some other sifu's book/video", but offer no logic behind the reason. Its sooo reminiscent of the old lineage wars. "Its wrong cause MY sifu says so, and only he knows the REAL chun"

Seriously. The 80's are gone. Please leave them in the past.

You asked if its possible to stick after throwing an elbow and the answer was yes, and I even gave an example.
Does my TAN stick to my opponent after a Tan Dar.
Yes.
Does the Kuo stick to my opponent after a Kuo Sau/Elbow.
Yes.
Does the Bong which collapses to an elbow from Bil Gee stick.
Yes.

If you think these are "wrong", as in, its an "inadvisable" technique, then please state your logic behind such an argument.

[Tom Kagan]

Perhaps, for the purposes of clarity I should have said "Is it possible for you to "stick" IMMEDIATELY after throwing an elbow?"

And as I asked you the first time, If I said I could, would you believe me?

[anerlich]

Are bil jee elbows the most overused of all wing chun techniques?

It is manifestly evident that, among 21st century WC practitioners, the "cutting internet barb" is the most overused of all Wing Chun techniques.

Some practititoners appear to use this technique to the exclusion of all others.

Compared to this, all other techniques are grossly underutilised.

[Ultimatewingchun]

It is manifestly evident that, among 21st century WC practitioners, the "cutting internet barb" is the most overused of all Wing Chun techniques.

Some practititoners appear to use this technique to the exclusion of all others.

Compared to this, all other techniques are grossly underutilised.

**Ha! Ha! Ha!

[taojkd]

It is manifestly evident that, among 21st century WC practitioners, the "cutting internet barb" is the most overused of all Wing Chun techniques.

Some practititoners appear to use this technique to the exclusion of all others.

Compared to this, all other techniques are grossly underutilised.

ROFL!! Even worse than a paper cut. The "cutting internet barb".

[Liddel]

It means:

"Force comes, keep it; Force retreats, follow it"

If you throw an elbow technique, you violate this core maxim as you can't "stick" with it when you use an elbow technique (can't check it OR follow it).

Ed

The elbow side maybe but whats your other side doing ? where does it say that theory has to always apply to the offencive action, what about the defencive side - this is VT we have two sides working in unisen dont we ... Some examples ive experienced -

If someone presses my bridge down and i follow into an overhead Karp Jarn ive held to the theory havent i - accept what comes.

If i tan an action and follow into a elbow as its moved away ive also held to the theory - follow what goes.

If i follow into Bil then Lan after the Karp i can maintain touch if the opponent is staying in the pocket. - sticking.

I can transition into a lower guarn or double even after an elbow to cover my open space... this allows one to turn from side to side maintaining body movement therefore power.. Yu Ma Lik.

And im not even touching on what the other side is doing - i like to press a bridge down when sparring to stop the opponent from getting off and elbow over the top, one hand is sticking LOL... and the elbow acts as a high guard for the opponents free side if he has fantastic timing to punch me prior to my elbow landing.

These are several examples of areas ive used elbows in sparring, i think while the theory is sound they way you see it is boxing you in Ed. Excuse the pun

DREW