Are bil jee elbows the most overused of all wing chun techniques?

[edseas2]

Maybe you got a bum translation because there's no mention of elbows in that saying.

You're right, of course, but using elbows inappropriately (similar to how they're used 99% of the time) violates the maxim.

Ed

[edseas2]

And you're suggesting that people don't get grabbed much in fights? Try going against someone who isn't so caught up in your little rule book - you'll often get grabbed, and you'll often use elbows without such a problem.

I thought that I was suggesting that the ONLY appropriate use for elbows was when you ARE grabbed? Regardless, that is how we train...


Ed

[sanjuro_ronin]

You're right, of course, but using elbows inappropriately (similar to how they're used 99% of the time) violates the maxim.

Ed

Go on, tell us how they violate those principles and which principles they violate.

[taojkd]

You're right, of course, but using elbows inappropriately (similar to how they're used 99% of the time) violates the maxim.

Ed

What maxim is this? You keep saying were people are violating your maxims but provide no vid as an example of this erroneous use of elbows or why its allegedly wrong. Do some searching of youtube and post some examples and why each is wrong.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Well, to be honest he does say "using elbows inappropriately..." so, in essenece he is correct.
Heck using ANYTHING inappropriately violates the WC maxims.

[edseas2]

Its easier if you ask your Sifu to explain it to you - it really is an incredibly simple concept.

Ed

[taojkd]

I thought that I was suggesting that the ONLY appropriate use for elbows was when you ARE grabbed? Regardless, that is how we train...


Ed

Someone grabs me, i can, and often do, punch. I also elbow them depending on the situation. There are other times when elbows are useful.
Your bong sao gets collapsed a la BilGee elbows.
Slide in from a Bong sao -> Lan or Elbow
Huen Sao to inside of a punching arm of opponent and elbow (cause he's too close to punch)

[sanjuro_ronin]

Its easier if you ask your Sifu to explain it to you - it really is an incredibly simple concept.

Ed

Ok Richard, if that's how you wanna play it.

[edseas2]

It means:

"Force comes, keep it; Force retreats, follow it"

If you throw an elbow technique, you violate this core maxim as you can't "stick" with it when you use an elbow technique (can't check it OR follow it).

Ed

[taojkd]

Its easier if you ask your Sifu to explain it to you - it really is an incredibly simple concept.

Ed

I have. To a couple different instructors that i have trained under. They all seem to think that elbows/knees/clinch (neck-pulling hand from dummy form) are useful if that's the range the fight goes to.

As someone once told me "A lot has been lost in three generations." I guess that its true.

A lot has been gained in 3 generations. Advancement in training methods, more arts to test the techniques against. The more people train and fight the more refined the arts will become.

If you throw an elbow technique, you violate this core maxim as you can't "stick" with it when you use an elbow technique (can't check it OR follow it).

Sure you can. From bong sao i slide in and elbow, sticking all the way in. Elbow from a collapsed bong sao sticks at the wrist all the way in.

When you throw a punch at someone does it "stick" to the opponent all the way in every time? No. of course not.

Didnt you post something about chain punching being the equivalent to "Spray and Pray" firearms tactic. "It will hit sometihng eventually".

My elbow strikes are a lot more accurate than that notion.

And as for maxims. I think these are your maxims, not our core WC maxims. Or perhaps your own misinterpretations of them.

[edseas2]

What maxim is this? You keep saying were people are violating your maxims but provide no vid as an example of this erroneous use of elbows or why its allegedly wrong. Do some searching of youtube and post some examples and why each is wrong.

They're NOT MY maxims! Don't you get it? They are the CORE of our system! You have this thing about youtube...ask your Sifu these questions...

As I said earlier, it is very sad to see how much has been lost in the system so quickly...

Ed

[sanjuro_ronin]

It means:

"Force comes, keep it; Force retreats, follow it"

If you throw an elbow technique, you violate this core maxim as you can't "stick" with it when you use an elbow technique (can't check it OR follow it).

Ed

I don't agree, but I can see how throwing an elbow incorrectly will violate that maxim, juts like throwing chain punches incorrectly will do the same thing.

[edseas2]

Sure you can. From bong sao i slide in and elbow, sticking all the way in. Elbow from a collapsed bong sao sticks at the wrist all the way in.

When you throw a punch at someone does it "stick" to the opponent all the way in every time? No. of course not.

Didnt you post something about chain punching being the equivalent to "Spray and Pray" firearms tactic. "It will hit sometihng eventually".

My elbow strikes are a lot more accurate than that notion.

And as for maxims. I think these are your maxims, not our core WC maxims. Or perhaps your own misinterpretations of them.

Clearly you haven't learned the system and therefore I am wasting my time...fwiw we DON'T use chain punches...you apparently aren't aware of the PRESENCE of our maxims, much less their significance or any understanding thereof.

Ed

[taojkd]

um, wow. No logic. Just, "i dont agree therefore your wrong". I'm sorry, but i have trained wc under a couple of different lineages/sifus etc and these techniques do not violate any maxims.

Whats worse is that i have used them in several sparring sessions with other styles. Not claiming to be the best or anything, but what i've learned from WC is useful and works.

If you dont mind me asking, where do you train WC and what makes you such an end-all-be-all expert?

To the rest of the peeps on this thread. Am I completely off base with the above mentioned elbow techniques as being NOT WC, or violating some grand universal law of fighting?

(i.e. dont cross the streams, Vankman)

[edseas2]

um, wow. No logic. Just, "i dont agree therefore your wrong". I'm sorry, but i have trained wc under a couple of different lineages/sifus etc.)

A month here...a week there...some DVD's and books I think?...


Ed