This is our fault

[Hardwork108]

This may sound selfish but a ten year buying booze or a "Doobie" for that matter is not a threat to me. However a 24 year old buying alcohol (or drugs) at a corner store and then getting in his car and driving is very much a threat.

That is a good point. Add to that a 24 year old who may be in a desperate fix but does not have the money and is willing to do anything to anyone to get it, then the scenario gets even worse.

Aside from that I have no qualms with anybody doing anything to thier body....as long as it doesn't hurt others. I know plenty of people who maybe once or twice a year (Special occasions) might do some fairly hard drugs.....as long as they can handle it...go for it!

You know many if not most of the most powerful countries in the West have governments that can't wait to find an excuse to spy on their citizens or to limit their democratic rights and so on. So far they have used the "war on terrorism"; "war on drugs" as excuses.

Imagine if they legalized drugs and it all went wrong with crime going up; with car and other accidents going up; with an increase in general "dumbness" in society because most people were whacked out of their brains at some time during the day. Wouldn't that give the government the excuse to come down hard and take away some more civil/democratic rights from the citizens?

The scenario that I described does not seem that far fetched to me.

[sanjuro_ronin]

You wanna increase the sale of anything?
Make it illegal.

[David Jamieson]

Historically, it has also been done half-assed, so I don't find that to be relevant. Validating drug use will only make the problem worse, much like how alcoholism and lung cancer strikes millions of Americans, costs billions, if not trillions in accidents, deaths, and hospitalizations, and generally wreaks havoc on society. Prohibition didn't work? Ok, fair enough. It failed for a number of reasons. But what we have now is far worse. Try explaining to a mother why her daughter died. Because someone had the right to drink. Because there is NOTHING in place to keep that person from hopping into his car. Because we don't want to infringe on their "freedoms". Spare me the liberty or death argument, because I don't buy it. Spare me the "prohibition don't wurk" speech, because we know that. It was a half-assed effort, but I'm sure it saved a few lives.

Drug use is validated now through the fda and big pharma and the medical associations that give the green light to prescribing drug therapy for virtually every affliction real or perceived known to man.

There are technologies available that would prevent a person from driving while intoxicated. But there is no legislation making them mandatory in cars like say a seatbelt.

You are arguing apples and oranges. Legalization of recreational drugs only means an ability to control, tax and benefit from them. Why would you want to enact control laws that impede freedoms and encourage criminals to profit?

making recreational drugs illegal only supports crime and criminal endeavours. I'd rather they be legal, taxed, controlled and distributed by the people and for the people.

there's no getting around the fact that as long as they are illegal, criminals will continue to profit from them.

[Baqualin]

Anybody read "Confessions of An Economic Hitman"? From what I remember, it had some interesting things to say about the drug war.

Thanks for the heads up....... bought it yesterday and I couldn't put it down.
BQ

[Hardwork108]

Very interesting book. Having gotten sick of "great" or "important" books accumulating on my book shelf, I just ordered the audio book from Amazon. His view on the drug situation in places like Colombia and Afghanistan is certainly not what you see on CNN or ABC World News Tonight. lol

Very true.

And that is because the media is controlled. Apparently the drug plantations and exports have increased in size since the US invasion of Afghanistan. That says a lot about the morality of the people who run the world.

[SifuAbel]

Verifiable sources on this comment?

http://www.druglibrary.org/prohibitionresults.htm

Other sources note that legal saloons were replaced by 5 to 10 times more speak easys.

[Yao Sing]

on this you make a good point, one that I have noticed for years - specifically, the massive preponderance of anti-depressants - I think that something like 30-50% of the population is on these things? add in the anti-anxiety meds and I can't imagine what the numbers are; while these make people more "functional", it's still unsettling, because it is so common yet goes largely unnoticed;

The worst is the youngsters that are put on adderall and such, and some are court ordered "for their own good". I know someone who the school had him put his kid on it for ADD and now the poor kid looks like the walking dead. Plus it gets tehm used to taking pills regularly.

It's almost ironic...

I am a vocal advocate for wide-spread legalization. And yet I've only used 3 advil in the last year and that was when I had a simultaneous ear ache and tooth ache on the same side of my head.

We live in an over-medicated society.

I used to get a lot of junk mail for smoking because of signing petitions. I don't smoke but believe everyone has the right to make their own decisions. So just because I support the freedom of choice everyone thinks I'm a smoker.

Nah, pretty typical, according to my doctor I am the biggest freak he has ever had, in the years he has been my doctor he has never prescribed anything to me other than the cure for Ulcers when it was found that it was a bacteria that causes it.
Never even had a prescription for tylenol 3, LOL !
No pain killers, no medication of any kind.
Of course, I am immortal, so...

You go to the doctor? Why?

I worked with a guyu that had top get a prostate exam. I asked him why. He said "you know, they say over forty you should get an exam every year". I asked who "they" were, the ones making money off prostate exams? It's like the diamond industry telling you how much you should spend on an engagement ring. Conflict of interest.
l

there are a lot of blubbering puzzies out there though who run for medication every time they stub their toes. Manginas is what they are.

That's why we are swamped with antibiotic resistant viruses and super bugs, overuse of antibiotics.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americ...ral/index.html

Anyone who buys and uses illegal narcotics is funding the destruction of our Southern neighbor.

Have you heard about the recent beheading of the police chief down there? Seems the drug gangs are winning.

[Faruq]

Thanks for the heads up....... bought it yesterday and I couldn't put it down.
BQ

Yeah, it had me listening so much I couldn't do anything else. That and the Money Masters documentary are two things no one else I know knows about, and no one I mention them to will check out. I have no way to verify if the info in them is true or not, so anyone who checks either one out please post your opinion.

[SimonM]

I used to get a lot of junk mail for smoking because of signing petitions. I don't smoke but believe everyone has the right to make their own decisions. So just because I support the freedom of choice everyone thinks I'm a smoker.

I think that cigarettes should not be illegal.

What I also think is that where they are to be used should be proscribed.

I think that, likewise, cannabis should be legal.

But that where it is smoked should be proscribed in the same manner as tobacco.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Sometimes when I see what is around me and I wonder what I can do, I think of this:

[Reverend Tap]

I think that cigarettes should not be illegal.

What I also think is that where they are to be used should be proscribed.

I think that, likewise, cannabis should be legal.

But that where it is smoked should be proscribed in the same manner as tobacco.

Honestly, this sort of thing is probably the best overall solution.

I'm big on allowing the most personal liberty possible to everyone, but there is the quandary of what to do when my freedom to act in a certain way can be damaging to you. "My freedom to swing my fist ends at the tip of your nose," and all that (unless we're sparring ).

Making the substances that people use legal, but designating specific places for their use where it, and the users' behavior, can be kept under control, and disallowing it elsewhere, is likely the best compromise.

I would also favor, as someone mentioned earlier in the thread, requiring breathalysers in cars as we do other safety features. There is, after all, no right to drive intoxicated (this issue would also be helped by a large-scale expansion of public transportation, but that's an issue for another time).

[uki]

everything should be legal so that it can be taxed and controlled and taken out of the hands of criminals.

if there is no laws to break, there would be no criminals to break them.

laws=crime=punishment

problem, reaction, solution... controlled outcome, 100% of the time.

[David Jamieson]

if there is no laws to break, there would be no criminals to break them.

laws=crime=punishment

problem, reaction, solution... controlled outcome, 100% of the time.

laws = order and a reasonable expectation of contribution within a social construct.

While I agree there are many laws that merely create criminals there are obvious reasons for having crime and punishment.

how do you feel about murder? should it be dealt with with due process of law or would a lynch mob be more fitting or should it just be excused out of hand?

what about theft? no laws for that? Child molestation? Should we just collectively ignore these things or would you agree a system of laws is a better idea?

And if not rule of law, then what model would you put to society in order for it to function harmoniously?

even nature has laws.

[Hardwork108]

I have a student who is a pharmacist in Target. She says the majority (around 90 %) of her patients are in for pain meds, anti-depressants/mood elevators, and anti psychotic drugs. Pretty scary, huh?

The really scary bit is the fact that this is no accident!

I can see the time in the future when the medical establishment turns around and says "whoops we made a 'mistake'". However, there is no mistake in it.

The population is being dopped and dumbed down one way or the other wether it is through prescription drugs for aften imaginery problems; food additives or even idiotic media (tv,films, etc.)programing.

Any legalisation legalising the illegal narcotics is going to help the people who are behind this cruel agenda.

[Hardwork108]

on this you make a good point, one that I have noticed for years - specifically, the massive preponderance of anti-depressants - I think that something like 30-50% of the population is on these things? add in the anti-anxiety meds and I can't imagine what the numbers are; while these make people more "functional", it's still unsettling, because it is so common yet goes largely unnoticed;

Furthermore, there is nothing normal about this situation and I believe that it was planned and is being carried out in a premeditated manner.

personally, I am in favor of legalization, but what concerns me is how to prevent people in significantly altered states of consciousness from harming other people, and probably there should be a minimum age

I think that if drugs are ever legalised then each country should provide an island where all these junkies can go and stay where they can smoke, snort and inject their brains out, so that the only people they hurt are themselves, while the politicians who legalised the drugs reap the profits.

Of course the rest of the population who will be stoned on the prescription drugs, alcohol and the food additives will be too dopped to do anything about it.

Besides, it is likely that their minds will be occupied with the latest Middle Eastern man with the beard the intelligence agencies choose to terrorize them with.