OT: JFK speech, a warning of 9-11?

[David Jamieson]

Pfft !@
Glorified kickboxer

lol. not really, i still do forms.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Some people confuse liberty with freedom.
Some people forget that " if you vote, they will rule".
Some people forget that "consumers dictate economies"

In short, some people don't like to shoulder their part of the blame.

[sanjuro_ronin]

lol. not really, i still do forms.

Forms? never heard of her, she anything like this one:

[uki]

Some people confuse liberty with freedom.
Some people forget that " if you vote, they will rule".
Some people forget that "consumers dictate economies"

but most people confuse the illusion with the reality.

In short, some people don't like to shoulder their part of the blame.

yeah and i wonder why they are still in office...

[SimonM]

but most people confuse the illusion with the reality.

Yeah, Hardwork108, you and David Icke top that list.

[Hardwork108]

do you consider yourself to be "free"?

Of course, not!

Unfortunately the fact is that we can be victims of a bomb or bullets that are fired to fulfill some political agenda that we may or may not have any ideas about and that most likely at a much higher level that one imagines.

Wherever one goes one sees the same political and economic elements that trap the human being and do their best to turn him into a robot.

The society that says "hey guys, borrow money to buy what you can't really afford as you can pay for it later" and then goes on to say, "economic crisis, whoops we made a "mistake" but we still need to reclaim your house", is spreading its wings.

Global wars continue while the real countries behind them preach peace and human rights, while at the same time arming and financing the parties involved. There does not seem anywhere safe to live anymore.

The current economic crisis was apparently caused by "mistakes" made by global banks. The same banks that have been screwing us for decades. What do the some Western govenments (the employees of the bankers?) do in response? They give the banks (who were suppose be going bust) billions of dollars of the tax payers' money (yes the same tax payers that the banks have been screwing).

Following the first such "rescue" attempt/package in the UK, the banks went on to give huge bonuses to some of their directors (no doubt for a job well done as regards the crisis.). This did cause some scandal at the time.

Meanwhile we are being made aware of the "war" on global warming and yes surprise surprise higher taxes and more manipulated government involvement in our daily lives.

Other recent excuses for government intervention into our lives and privacy include the "war on terrorism (what a laugh when one discovers the origins of it) and the "war on drugs".

Most of the stuff I talked about is being administered globally. None of us are going to be free until people take their heads out of their collective @sses and stop blindly trusting presidents and prime ministers as their are nothing but selected psychopatic CEOs in companies that none of us have any shares in (inspite of what we are told). These leaders have their own masters who have their own agendas.

Thanks for your time.

[Hardwork108]

See here's my problem with the tinfoil hat crowd. This statement isn't fundamentally wrong. And then you go and start talking about the shapechanging reptile people from the hollow earth being behind the illuminati who rule all of reality through the freemasons.

As I stated before Icke says a lot of things that make sense. I stick to that stuff. As far as the more out of this world stuff goes, my position is no comment, or even lets wait and see.

There are people, lots of people, who don't like the increasing power of multinational corporations and the erosion of the nation state. There are lots of people who are working very hard to come up with real solutions to these real problems.

Yet these people have not realized that their leaders are nothing more than the employees of these multinationals, principly the banks. The so called "Democratic process" , as it exists today, is just an elaborate illusion to make the "sheep "believe that they play a part in their destiny. Until people wake up to this fact, no one is going to be free!

And it only takes one frothing conspiracy nut to completely marginalize everything those of us working for a more fair and compassionate world are doing.

I see your point here, but again most stuff he says makes sense. The world of econonics and politics seems to be full of freemasonic symbolism. Besides why should any supposedly democratic and "free "country have politicians and leaders belonging to secret societies?????

So, no, I'm not going to don a tinfoil hat just because Icke believes himself to be an enemy of global capitalism.

Right now I would say that a lack of hat is not the main problem with your head.

I WILL call you on your bull$hit and try to make it clear that there are sane people who don't think an unfettered free market is a good idea.

Unfortunately many of these "sane" people are trying to fight this using the same corrupt democratic system that was designed and belongs to their "enemies".

Debt isn't slavery.

Debt is slavery by design!

You don't believe me? Then just look at Latin America. Take Brazil for example. It was a democratic country in the 50's with stability and a growing economy. Then there was a military coup backed by the "Free" and "Democratic" U.S. which installed a military dictatorship. The military dictatorship (a wholey owned CIA asset) went on to borrow money from the "First world" bankers for development purposes. Now we end up with a country that could have been one of the richest nations in the world owing trillions of dollars to Western First World countries' banks.

It's the natural repurcussion of creating an economy that depends on constant expansion when you have a finite consumer base. So you literally give the stuff away in exchange for the promise that money will later follow.

The "stuff" or money is never given away. The banks are creating wealth mostly from money that does not exist as they are always allowed to lend more money then they actually have in their vaults. That means that mostly money is created by typing in numbers on their computer screens to lend to borrowers. However, if the borrowers are not able to pay within the conditions or if there is an "economic crisis", then the banks get solid assets such as homes or businesses in return for their digitalized numbers.

It's a foolish practice.

It is more than a foolish practice it is planned enslavement.

It's not an attempt to enslave people.

Again, look at Latin America and other "Third World" countries, specially the ones with huge amounts of mineral wealth. If you do, then you will see that they are being screwed covertly, one way(debts) or the other (wars) by "First world" countries or MORE CORRECTLY BY PEOPLE AND CORPORATE FAMILIES WHO RUN THESE COUNTRIES AND ANY CORRELATION BETWEEN THEIR INTERESTS WITH THOSE OF THE ORDINARY CITIZENS OF THOSE COUNTRIES IS PURELY INCIDENTAL!

There is no such thing as absolute, unrestricted freedom.

I am not talking about "absolute" and "unrestricted" freedom!

So please don't put any words in my mouth as I get enough of that from lkfmdc and Sanjuro_ronin, thank you!

Quite frankly restricting the freedom of everyone in order to ensure the survival of the species (by making laws making polluting financially untenable) is a VERY GOOD restriction on personal freedom.

That is what the same people who are blowing away Iraqis with uranium depeleted bombs are trying to make you believe.

The problem is that we are always getting "sugarcoated" messages on the protection of environment, "war on drugs" and "war on terrorism" by leaders who were put in power by interests who are outside the so called democratic process.

That is why the drugs don't go away. That is why there will always be "terrorists", because without all these MANUFACTURED problems people would not put up with unjust wars nor would they stand for the almost daily erosion of their freedom!

[SimonM]

Yet these people have not realized that their leaders are nothing more than the employees of these multinationals, principly the banks. The so called "Democratic process" , as it exists today, is just an elaborate illusion to make the "sheep "believe that they play a part in their destiny. Until people wake up to this fact, no one is going to be free!

Well I for one oppose war as being a cause of considerable suffering. As such armed insurrection is not a tool I am willing to use. Therefore working within the system - which provides considerable freedom of speech and opinion regardless of what you might think - is the only real viable way to act for the greater good.

I guess I could "drop out" and hit the bush but I'd rather do some good.

I see your point here, but again most stuff he says makes sense. The world of econonics and politics seems to be full of freemasonic symbolism. Besides why should any supposedly democratic and "free "country have politicians and leaders belonging to secret societies?????

I know freemasons. That bunch of anachronistic twits couldn't manage a major conspiracy if they tried. As for your question, here is my response: If the nation is free does that not include freedom of association for all citizens of it, politicians included?

Unfortunately many of these "sane" people are trying to fight this using the same corrupt democratic system that was designed and belongs to their "enemies".

Please see my comments vis armed insurrection. I have already addressed this point.

Debt is slavery by design!

No, actually, it's not. Slavery is when you are forced to work without renumeration the definition may be expanded to include people who are compelled to work for insufficient renumeration.

Personal debt is simply when you buy more than you can afford.

You don't believe me? Then just look at Latin America. Take Brazil for example. It was a democratic country in the 50's with stability and a growing economy. Then there was a military coup backed by the "Free" and "Democratic" U.S. which installed a military dictatorship. The military dictatorship (a wholey owned CIA asset) went on to borrow money from the "First world" bankers for development purposes. Now we end up with a country that could have been one of the richest nations in the world owing trillions of dollars to Western First World countries' banks.

Structural adjustment policies and the other tools of the IMF and the world bank are certainly a blight. They are used to forward the exploitation of whole peoples.

But, here's the thing, that is entirely different than personal debt, the subject I thought we were discussing. And, as bad as they are, they aren't slavery, simply exploitation, which is different.

The "stuff" or money is never given away. The banks are creating wealth mostly from money that does not exist as they are always allowed to lend more money then they actually have in their vaults. That means that mostly money is created by typing in numbers on their computer screens to lend to borrowers. However, if the borrowers are not able to pay within the conditions or if there is an "economic crisis", then the banks get solid assets such as homes or businesses in return for their digitalized numbers.

On this we don't disagree. Thing is that I see this "imaginary money" as being no money at all. And so I refer to goods being given away in exchange for a promise of money in the future. This is what personal debt is.

It is more than a foolish practice it is planned enslavement.

If you are refering to personal debt it is not as those individuals who truly have no option but to live beyond their means are generally not able to acumulate much formal debt.

If you are talking about national debt and about the strategies used to keep the third world in poverty I agree that they are exploitation. But, and this is important now, blaming the freemasons because the lizard men of the hollow planet made Prince Charles create the antichrist won't solve the problem, it just makes the people who are trying to solve the problem look crazy by association! And that's what Icke and his ilk do!

I am not talking about "absolute" and "unrestricted" freedom!

And yet you lump taxation (a good thing) and environmental regulation (a good thing) in with warmongering (a bad thing) and corporate rule (largely used to avoid paying taxes)

So please don't put any words in my mouth as I get enough of that from lkfmdc and Sanjuro_ronin, thank you!

I really have no need. You put enough crazy in your posts for me to go on with.

That is what the same people who are blowing away Iraqis with uranium depeleted bombs are trying to make you believe.

I can understand why you, with your tinfoil hat firmly on, would believe this. But, trust me, the people championing "blowing away Iraquis with uranium depleted bombs" (I believe you are refering to DU rounds but I won't worry about that, bullets are just as bad as bombs) are most emphatically the same people championing the relaxation of environmental regulations, the expansion of off-shore oil mining, and opposing carbon taxation or funding for clean fuel alternatives.

They are not the people supporting carbon taxes and funding for clean fuel.

The problem is that we are always getting "sugarcoated" messages on the protection of environment, "war on drugs" and "war on terrorism" by leaders who were put in power by interests who are outside the so called democratic process.

Protecting the environment is NOT the same message as the wars on various nouns!

That is why the drugs don't go away. That is why there will always be "terrorists", because without all these MANUFACTURED problems people would not put up with unjust wars nor would they stand for the almost daily erosion of their freedom!

Tell me: how have YOUR freedoms been eroded today?
What erosion has happened to YOUR freedoms in the year of 2009?

[Reverend Tap]

I cannot stand continual rehashing of tired conspiracy theories, so I will simply contribute two words to this discussion:

Occam's Razor.

That is all.

[SimonM]

Very eloquently put Rev. Tap.

[Baqualin]

[QUOTE=SimonM;913803]

They are not the people supporting carbon taxes

Why would you want to tax plant food

[SimonM]

Plants eat Carbon Monoxide now?

[Baqualin]

The Taxes their trying to promote are on CO2....don't get me wrong I'm for cleaner burning fuel.

[uki]

Occam's Razor.

yet the definition of what is the simplest is relative to the perciever... what one man defines as being the simplest explanation, may very well be another mans complication of it.

for me, the simple fact that we have been manipulated by extra-terrestials since the beginning is far simpler than all the half-baked theories going around under the disguise of science or religion, which do nothing more than confuse the mind even further...

[SimonM]

Actually you are mistaken Uki.

Occam's razor states that the explanation of any phenomenon should make as few assumptions as possible, eliminating those that make no difference in the observable predictions of the explanatory hypothesis or theory.

Blaming the vicissitudes of global politics and economics on space aliens grossly defies that. After all, it is a MASSIVE assumption (in the lack of any viable empirical data on the subject) and it is an assumption that makes no difference to observable predictions with regards to human politics and economics.