Chi Kung Question

[spiralstair]

Chazmek
Sorry if that seemed flip. It all depends on how good you are on 'absorbing'. If you can really do it, than you must pick a healthy tree, not just any based on that you 'like' it. Think of it like a sexual partner, just because you like women doesn't mean you'd like one with HIV...

Willows? Cool, the bark of white willow contains salicin, which is a chemical similar to aspirin (acetylsalicylic acid). It is thought to be responsible for the pain-relieving and anti-inflammatory effects and has been used for centuries . That's the good. For the bad, see above.

[Jack Squat]

I agree with Sifu Ron.

IMO, it was most likely a bad reaction to the flu shot x2 (hitting bone and bending needle also never helps!).

Don't think it has anything to do with qigong.

The real question is why did he even get a flu shot in the first place? At the very least it is a waste of time and money, and at the very worst, complications and a whole new set of problems can arise.

[Hendrik]

I've got a buddy who claims to have "pian cha" 徧差 from practicing chi kung as described at: http://www.alternativehealing.org/risks_of_qigong.htm. Anyway, he was recommended to visit Chinese Physician Jo Sifu at 2001 South Barrington Ave in West Los Angeles, but I told him it was all bunk. Does anyone know if the "pian cha" 徧差 is real, and if the Jo Sifu is qualified to treat it? Is he just gonna charge Rick a thousand dollars, and Rick's gonna still be sick after he gets treated? How can someone check the qualifications of such a doctor, and find out how many people with this problem he's treated successfully?

IMHO

contact Master Fu
http://www.emeiqigong.us/lineage/lin...wei-zhong.html
and ask his advise.

Because he was trained in these stuffs which is a teaching in emei's system. In fact his sigung Zhou Qian Chuan was one of the pioner in the Pian Cha handling.
http://www.emeiqigong.us/lineage/lin...ian-chuan.html


Stop speculating and get the proper help.

[Hendrik]

Here are something extremely important for those who train Qigong or Meditation.

Follow these, these are the practice guide lines of Zen buddhism.
Take it extremely serious because you might need it if you deal with energy stuffs.



http://online.sfsu.edu/~rone/Buddhis...526.screen.pdf

click on the origin of Demonic states.


http://online.sfsu.edu/~rone/Buddhis...526.screen.pdf

click on The Three Non-outflow studies.

[Hendrik]

In Rick's investigations, he claims to have been told that big, strong, old trees can make him healthy again. So whenever I hang out with him and we happen to pass a big tree, he's got stop and lay his hands on it for a few minutes, and then hug it for a few minutes, and basically just rub all against it. He says according to Chinese medical tradition it's supposed to re-balance his chi if he hangs around trees and nature. Anybody ever heard this before? Is it really necessary for him to hug and lays his hands on trees, or has he misunderstood this tradition?

Thus, I have heard from the Chinese Buddhism view.


This is an issue searching for "Truth" outside the Buddha Nature according to Buddhism.

Due to the greed of power or energy, one is looking for external source to aids one or become more powerfull. Not knowing, one is self-fullfil and do not need the external energy. The cultivation is about let go the delusion not about keep adding something.

To be healthy, one needs to clear one's karma, Karma means dynamic in progress. and the things which influence Karma is Mind set, Food.....etc.

In the ancient time, those who like to heal themself, always going into silence. Meaning drop the mind, quiet the mind, Yes, drop the thoughts when the thoughts arise. and all day long they recite the mantra of Kwan Yin/Avalokitesvara Boddhisatva such as the Om Mani Padme Hum. The purpose is to via one's effort ---- let go the thinking pattern, and Via the help of the Boddhisatva ---- mantra. One be able to "reset" one's energy state. and if one's energy state is "reset" one return to healthy.


To do Qigong properly, one needs to enter into silence, silence means let go thoughts. one needs to have a proper training technics in handling the Mind, or mantra to desolve one's dellusion as in the above....

Then, later, one enter into the Dao mimic Nature state. However, one seriously needs a teacher who knows the path very well.

Instead of keep the mind spinnning with all kind on logic..., let the greed of power, energy, youth.....etc turn one to be the slave of desire, and get trap into different states.


Yes, there are practice which is taking other's energy or Call "Chai Qi" however those are not consider proper for main stream cultivator.


Thus, the Shurangama is extremely important in the cultivation or dealing with awareness, energy....etc.


Be really carefull, as we in the west have the tendency to think we know every thing and Scientific and critical thinking...... Well, in the realm of energy Mind and logic can play tricks and traps ourself. It is no longer Kansas Toto.


Best Wishes

[Xiao3 Meng4]

In Rick's investigations, he claims to have been told that big, strong, old trees can make him healthy again. So whenever I hang out with him and we happen to pass a big tree, he's got stop and lay his hands on it for a few minutes, and then hug it for a few minutes, and basically just rub all against it. He says according to Chinese medical tradition it's supposed to re-balance his chi if he hangs around trees and nature. Anybody ever heard this before? Is it really necessary for him to hug and lays his hands on trees, or has he misunderstood this tradition?

My Qigong teacher showed us tree Qigong. Evergreens are best, apparently; the older, the better. According to him, trees breathe in and out once a day (in during the day and out at night.)

Basically, approach the tree and embrace it, just like in Zhan Zhuang. Don't touch the tree, though; just do Zhan Zhuang with your arms encircling the tree, and relax. Sense the height of the tree, and Visualize its roots going as deep as it is tall. Next, Sense your own body height, and extend your root as deep as you are tall, and relax. Over the course of a session, extend your root as deeply as the tree your are working with. Then close.

Apparently, when we approach a tree, its surface root ecology senses our footsteps, and the tree closes its "pores." Stand quietly beside it, though, and the tree will relax, allowing its pores to open and its plant hormones to be emitted.

I've done tree Qigong, and I have to say it's incredibly enjoyable, especially when the tree relaxes and all of a sudden you're hit with a fresh, earthy, energizing sap odor.

[Faruq]

Rick had went to LA to get Chinese acupuncture energy massage from Zhou Ting Jue, and got this incredible fever and exhaustion after getting back. Master Jo did say Rick'd need more rest for the next 2 - 3 months, but Rick can't even work now and is the worst he's ever been. I guess treatment by a qigong master wasn't a good idea.

Anyway I just spoke to Rick again, and he told me that he was just in contact with Bak Mei Pai teacher and Chinese Physician Dr Y Q Wong because he had been told that he had experience correcting pian cha. But sadly, Dr Wong's wife replied that Dr Wong passed away this past Thursday. All accounts say he was a great and very generous person who helped a lot of people. Apparently his obituary is on www.mem.com. He'll be missed. May he rest in Peace.

[Faruq]

Anyone ever notice that if you google say "pian cha", "chi sickness", "the dangers of chi" or "chi imbalances" you'll find thousands of sites that list the symptoms; but none that state how to cure it? lol You'll find some novices' suggestions or speculations about how it might be cured here and there on forum pages brought up by the search, but even on the sites where a full page is devoted to the subject by supposed experts you'll only find the symptoms discussed, and never how it can be cured.

Rick told me he had gone to Bruce Kumar Frantzis' website and used the "contact us" form to ask him because he says Bruce said he suffered from it at one point in a book called "Energy Gates of the Body" or something like that. Rick said some student who hadn't even read Bruce's book e-mailed him back saying that Bruce didn't answer e-mails personally, but if Rick took one of Bruce's seminars, sometimes Bruce fielded questions from the participants so he might be able to ask him how he got cured if he went. The guy wanted him to spend a couple of grand on a seminar where there was no guarantee he'd be able to even ask his question, much less a guarantee he'd get an answer. lol How to cure chi sickness may be one of the biggest mysteries in all of the martial arts...

[RonH]

I agree with Sifu Ron.

IMO, it was most likely a bad reaction to the flu shot x2 (hitting bone and bending needle also never helps!).

Don't think it has anything to do with qigong.

The real question is why did he even get a flu shot in the first place? At the very least it is a waste of time and money, and at the very worst, complications and a whole new set of problems can arise.

Even if the qigong practice wasn't the cause, there's obviously an energetic imblance stemming from the other symptons. The important thing is that the energies are overall spinning clockwise/positive (up the right arm and down the left).

The importance in energy body work is balance, including qigong. Troubles in the material form are caused by either an underaccumulation or an overaccumulation of energies. Having a single dose of a flu shot causes an increase in energy with the increased accumulation of energy that causes its desired effects. For him, if it really was the second shot and not the qigong, the second shot was too much for him to handle, espcially if nerves are struck and damage is done to bone and the like. This causes an even higher overaccumulation that sets off more problems. Adding more herbs and medicines increases the overaccumulation.

Adding things like energy healing, while deigned to make things better can screw things up because the receiver is just thinking 'add more, add more'. It continues the downward spiral. Each cause for each symptom on the risk of qigong page is gonna be either an underaccumulation or an overaccumulation, depending on the lack or overproduction of the material thing that causes that sympton. That corresponds to whether that sympton is from an over or underaccumulation of energy.

Take confusion based on insufficient neurotransmitters in the brain. This would be an example of underaccumulation of energy. You stub your foot in the dark on wooden furniture and it swells. This is an example of overaccumulation. Problems with the brain that are caused by a decrease as well as an increase in chemicals are combination problems, where each thing that is wrong is specifically an under or an overaccumulation problem.

I would say to have your friend stop the qigong, there's no rush, and get him to an accupuncturist, so his work is supplimenting the medical doc. Meditating never hurt anyone, so he should keep that up. He should use it to try to bring his balance under control.

Is it really necessary for him to hug and lays his hands on trees, or has he misunderstood this tradition?

You don't need to hug every **** tree you come across. Hugging them can be fine, but there's something else that works very well.

Have him sit or stand and image roots are coming out from under him and going into the earth and conntecting to the earth's energy core. Have him hold his arms up and imagine branches coming out of his hands/shoulders that reach up to the divine, connecting to its energy. Energy from the earth rises up through the right side of his body and reaches the divine. It comes back down the left side of his body and back into the earth.

It works real well for balancing, but I wouldn't use just one method to balance.

[RonH]

Anyone ever notice that if you google say "pian cha", "chi sickness", "the dangers of chi" or "chi imbalances" you'll find thousands of sites that list the symptoms; but none that state how to cure it?

Yes.

The guy wanted him to spend a couple of grand on a seminar where there was no guarantee he'd be able to even ask his question, much less a guarantee he'd get an answer. lol How to cure chi sickness may be one of the biggest mysteries in all of the martial arts......

Fu@k Bruce Kumar Frantzis. This is why qigong practicing styles need more training with energy healing. Many ignore TCM.

Edit: See the description in my post above.

[Faruq]

Another interesting post I found on the net about it:

________________________________________
By Loretta D. on Wednesday, September 21, 2005 - 9:26 am: Edit

I agree that qigong deviation, "zhou huo ru mo," “chi sickness”, “pian cha”, kundalini syndrome, or call-it-what-you-will, is real. But I must comment that there really are no great teachers about this in the EAST as well as the west. Very few masters in China (I've travelled there and met many who've come to the US), even know how to really truly treat the problem. I haven't yet heard of any yogi gurus or ayurvedic Drs. that have effective methods to treat or neutralize the syndrome's symptoms.. I've asked face-to-face, read 100's of posts, read books, documents, attended seminars, you name it. Most advice is really lame - like "think" the energy back down to your feet, press this acupoint, pray, etc. When I ask the sufferers if it helped them... they got very little, IF ANY relief for this syndrome. Most acupuncturists in the world can't "cure" it or seriously make it better.

I think it takes a long time, but can be solved. In my humble opinion, it happens because one over-enthusiastically pushes beyond what their body/system can handle at the moment. I also believe that the damage is like "scar tissue" - it needs a lot of care to work the damaged "stuff" out and a lot of time/attention to rebuild the proper structure back in. This is also why things like yoga and qigong require a lot of physical movement with the breathing or energy work - the BODY has to be conditioned to handle the sudden surge of energy. What happens if you put a very strong flow of electrcity on a finely-guaged wire? FRYYYYYYYY BABY, FRYYYYYY and MELLLLLT! Ouch! If we suddenly raise a tremendous current of qi or kundalini through our not-ready-for-it-yet system, wouldn't it make sense that we'd damage something?

I'd love to hear more from people who've experienced this problem, and MORE SO from the methods that people used to GET RELIEF or healing from this problem. Email to info@internalgardens.com on www.internalgardens.com and serious email only, please!!! -LMD Thanks!

[RonH]

The reason she can't find any is because she's looking in the wrong place. When looking for water in the desert, do you expect to find much on the surface? Their knowledge of internal medicine is limited because they don't expand it to the occult studies, even of the eastern variety. What she calls lame advice is actually what you should do and is what you actually do when you heal something that's internally energetic or even biologically wrong, but it isn't the full story. It's like reading only the middle section of a fiction novel.

To use it properly, you need a deeper understanding. When you teach science to children and you get to the basics of newtonian physics, do you also tell them at the same time that NP doesn't apply after a certain point? No, it'd confuse the hell out of their minds because they're focused on why and they try to figure out 'does newtonian physics apply here or not' when what you want to teach them is the basics of newtonian physics.

Every teacher that only instructs people on qigong alone and nothing else with the occult is giving them just the barest minimum of the understanding required to fully use qigong. It's the MMA of the internal arts.

[Faruq]

Interesting. If not yogic gurus, Ayurvedic Dr's, masters and acupuncturists in China, who would you say she should be asking?

The reason she can't find any is because she's looking in the wrong place. When looking for water in the desert, do you expect to find much on the surface? Their knowledge of internal medicine is limited because they don't expand it to the occult studies, even of the eastern variety. What she calls lame advice is actually what you should do and is what you actually do when you heal something that's internally energetic or even biologically wrong, but it isn't the full story. It's like reading only the middle section of a fiction novel.

To use it properly, you need a deeper understanding. When you teach science to children and you get to the basics of newtonian physics, do you also tell them at the same time that NP doesn't apply after a certain point? No, it'd confuse the hell out of their minds because they're focused on why and they try to figure out 'does newtonian physics apply here or not' when what you want to teach them is the basics of newtonian physics.

Every teacher that only instructs people on qigong alone and nothing else with the occult is giving them just the barest minimum of the understanding required to fully use qigong. It's the MMA of the internal arts.

[RonH]

Magickians. We aren't that hard to find, if you know where to look. Some are even public, but so are a lot of frauds and wanna-bes. But, magickians that are knowledgable of TCM or at least just the meridian system/healing.

[mawali]

It was stated that

I agree that qigong deviation, "zhou huo ru mo," “chi sickness”, “pian cha”, kundalini syndrome, or call-it-what-you-will, is real. But I must comment that there really are no great teachers about this in the EAST as well as the west. Very few masters in China (I've travelled there and met many who've come to the US), even know how to really truly treat the problem

but this is a falsehood regarding the actual problem being discussed.

1. pian cha is what we can call a symptom deviation and this could be mild, moderate, and even severe.

2. zou huo ru mo may be the full fledged final diagnosis (usually psychological/psychiatric in origin) which is manifested by obvious out of ordinary behaviour.

3. This 'kindalini syndrome' is not even close to a definition in TCM because kundalini is from another system. Mixing and matching distinct system is not and should not become a practice, Better to stick with each cultures unique features!

4. Many times 'devil running fire' is an undiagnosed psychiatric problem that is used as a political designation in the face of government persecution to make an event appear worse or discredit a situation! I will leave for another forum.