I think forms suck

[AdrianK]

One gave an opinion
Another commented on the opinion relevantly but used a term.

undercut

counter undercut

Out of context and off the line

There are understandings.

Some understandings come from experiences but also experience. Lacking the time-in, there's speculation.

Some think there's major usefulness in forms. Some understand forms to be near or wholly useless. Each to that one's understanding.

We are each correct as far as we understand. And at least some of us might be delusional. AdrianK seemed to be against influencing thought or interferring in people's beliefs. With that we might be wrong, but AdrianK believes we have the Right to be Wrong.

There's a thing said, "Truth be told." And we are telling Truth. AdrianK, if you think or know that we or someof us don't know the truth on the usefullness of formfs you seem to have said things that reflect that you believe that it is Not your place to tell us we are wrong as you infringe on our rights to believe/think what we do as long as we do similarly and allow you your beliefs.

If we can all allow everyone to believe as they do, then...I No_Know.

I No_Know

No_Know

There are beliefs backed up by logic and fact, by the collective experiences of many people.

And there are beliefs backed up by none of that.

If I were to force upon you that beating your child is wrong, that would be OKAY because it is backed up by years of research, by logic and fact.

If I were to force upon you that guys dating guys is dishonorable or wrong like bawang feels, that would be WRONG in itself because it is backed up by nothing. Not science, nor logic nor fact. Most of it stems from religious beliefs or prejudice which is passed down.

You can feel however you want to feel about it, but tolerance is key.

And if someone is going to post your beliefs on a public forum, they better prepare to back them up with something more than just vague, unsubstantiated bull****.

[Steeeve]

Forms could be shadow boxing ...could be hit the heavy bag ...or the speed ball
using same motion but different pattern ...jab cross hook is a form repetion of mouvements thats the same with traditionnal forms with katas or kuens or whaterver just different method of training

Are U so stupid for not understood

[Eric Olson]

I agree forms are stupid...but they were the best they had at the time to transmit the system...no youtube back then, afterall . What's really stupid is to turn them into a contest, as if the form is the final goal. That's missing the forest for the trees.

EO

[uki]

form = shape... the shape of your body is your form - moving is form. movement is changing shape... changing shape is changing form.

[Eric Olson]

form = shape... the shape of your body is your form - moving is form. movement is changing shape... changing shape is changing form.

In Chinese shape=xing and form (as is hand form) =tao lu. For some reason historical reason we use one word to refer to both things.

A better term might be "handset."


EO

[Lucas]

i often use 'routine' or 'sequence' instead of form refering to tou lu, falling back to the norm is so easy though.

[bawang]

tao = a set, a collection of movements/techniques
lu = road
northern kung fu fights in one straightline. you practice techniques in a straight line, then turn around and go back in a straight line. your foot make a road on the ground from drilling a long time.

i call forms "zhao" techniques. taijiquan 108 form i call it 108 zhao, 108 techniques.

some forms to me is no good, some forms to me is worth more than gold

[Steeeve]

good definition guys

[Steeeve]

well
only form i train is the hsing I 5 element ....santi shih is my esoteric posture
for the chi training

[CLFFU]

From a guitar player's standpoint, I guess I've always likened forms to scales or chords, and free fighting to actual improvised playing. You're using aspects of the scalar/chordal relationships in your playing, but you're not just running through them mindlessly. In MA terms, forms are a way of acquainting ones self with the actual techniques/combinations/etc. that may be drilled and trained for use in actual fighting.

On a side note, in reference to the mention of many people from Texas, Oklahoma, Iowa, etc. being able to wrestle, I have to say that being from Iowa, everybody and their mom knows how to wrestle here (at least a little.) I wrestled throughout high school, and so did most guys I know and have run around with. While it's been my experience that most pure "wrestlers" that fight around here do pretty well against the average douche bag they run into, they aren't always so great at real fighting and usually get knocked out by someone who knows their stuff and isn't too keen on rolling around on the ground. Besides, the guys that are kicking their asses ALSO have some wrestling background, coupled with the ability to hit 'em like they mean it.

[SAAMAG]

They don't teach you any realistic fightin applications obviously.

So why are we wasting our times doing them.

Form suck!

/thread

Vegetables suck too...but they're good for you. Forms are a record of information, they stimulate the mind (memory), body (movement), and soul (meditative).

That said...I don't do forms either.

[bawang]

shaolin luohan kung fu in the beginning only had 8 moves then 18 then 36 72 then 108 ,think about it
forms mean nothing

[SIFU RON]

It is simple to see who is knowledgeable of Kung Fu and whom is not, from the posts on this thread .

In the Nov/Dec issue of Kung Fu Tai Chi Magazine ( which we all should read) on page 58 - page 60 contains words of wisdom regarding Forms. The subject - Inside Wudang Mountain's - is an excellent article.

Forms include many of the stances and strikes used throughout the Wudang ( all systems actually) systems. Forms are useful because they teach the student how movements can be combined to create a flow. Practicing froms also helps the students develop steady footwork and an understanding of the martial applications. Learning and teaching forms is also a great way to pass on and preserve a lineage, by Daoist monk Shou Xuan Yun .

[TenTigers]

On a side note, in reference to the mention of many people from Texas, Oklahoma, Iowa, etc. being able to wrestle, I have to say that being from Iowa, everybody and their mom knows how to wrestle here (at least a little.) I wrestled throughout high school, and so did most guys I know and have run around with. While it's been my experience that most pure "wrestlers" that fight around here do pretty well against the average douche bag they run into, they aren't always so great at real fighting and usually get knocked out by someone who knows their stuff and isn't too keen on rolling around on the ground. Besides, the guys that are kicking their asses ALSO have some wrestling background, coupled with the ability to hit 'em like they mean it.

yep. My GF is from Iowa.
She's not much of a wrestler,
but you should see her box!

[sanjuro_ronin]

yep. My gf is from iowa.
She's not much of a wrestler,
but you should see her box!

*rimshot*:d