I think forms suck

[David Jamieson]

That is how I teach forms at my school. After all that is done, THEN I teach them the form from which the drills came. They learn it easier, they understand its meaning, and they don't end up as monkeys with tools.

Forms are your style's textbook, and were traditionally taught last, if at all. In many cases, only to lineage bearors, as that is how the system was passed down, intact from generation to generation.

If you don't like forms, and you have a wonderful notebook, or several volumes, filled with info on drills, applications, fighting techniques, training methods, hei-gung, noi-gung, etc, Fine.

But when you lose your notebook, or your students wish to teach, everything you devoted your life to is gone. You, and your training will not even be a memory.

what you need to do is walk up to the first kid you see with an ice cream cone, slap his face hard and take his ice cream.

He'll never ever forget you and he'll probably learn a martial art. It will be pure serendipity if he comes to you for training.

you gotta think ahead man, so get out there and start slapping some potential students! and even if they don't become your student, they'll become someone else's and if we all join together, we could slap a lotta kids and the streets will be flooded with melted ice creams and children tears!

oh man, what a perfect world that would be!

[Violent Designs]

Good post Uechi Ryu.

[jo]

T
If you don't like forms, and you have a wonderful notebook, or several volumes, filled with info on drills, applications, fighting techniques, training methods, hei-gung, noi-gung, etc, Fine.
.

Nobody has a bigger notebook than you!

- jo

[specialed]

1) Gung Fu is not all about fight, its also about health. Forms help build up strength and endurance. Forms can be done at different paces to meet different needs. If you execute your forms at a fast pace with alot of force you can develop your fast twitch muscles, external strength, and a little cardio.

Whoever taught you this LIED. This is what happens when people who do fight, never fought, and have no idea how to fight, teach martial arts.

[TenTigers]

Nobody has a bigger notebook than you!

- jo

Man, I gots volumes!

[wetwonder]

For an old-man beginner like me, forms are a good part about building strength and endurance. When I get through a form without panting, then I start doing the stances a little lower. And again the same.

My wife is a high school teacher in South Philadelphia, and in attending events with her, etc, I have seen more than a few real brawls between kids. The thing that stands out, is when two kids go out it for real for anything over 30 seconds, they end up sucking wind and retreat. If one of those kids did forms practice for a couple of years, they could wait out the opponents lack of stamina, and then rip him up.

So that is one benefit of forms, apart from the learning of techniques.

Another benefit is that you can practice your style by yourself, in your house, in a park, on a cruise ship, at work - without anyone else, without bags or boards, and still get a phenomenal workout.

[MasterKiller]

If one of those kids did forms practice for a couple of years, they could wait out the opponents lack of stamina, and then rip him up..

Why waste 2 years doing forms to reap the same benefit as 4 weeks of serious circuit training?

[banditshaw]

Why waste 2 years doing forms to reap the same benefit as 4 weeks of serious circuit training?

Cos it doesn't look as cool.

[wetwonder]

Why waste 2 years doing forms to reap the same benefit as 4 weeks of serious circuit training?

Because in my opinion it won't be as effective as forms training. Doing the forms correct, with low stances, is the best strength and endurance training you can get. If you aren't sucking wind at the end of doing one form, that you're not doing it right, no matter how many years you've been training. You can always do the stances lower, and can always do the form slower. Try doing first form slowly, over a period of 6 or 7 minutes, with stances as low as you can go - and then compare that to any other training.

[Exadon]

Whoever taught you this LIED. This is what happens when people who do fight, never fought, and have no idea how to fight, teach martial arts.

What part of what he said do you believe was a lie? Just wondering.


I enjoy forms.
I think they serve the same purpose as any other reputation practice. Learn how to hold stances, learn how to execute moves, and a way to learn various techniques
Also well performed forms are clearly a form of Art much like Dance and/or Gymnastics.

Complex forms require a lot of control over body and mind

[Golden Arms]

Doing the forms correct, with low stances, is the best strength and endurance training you can get. If you aren't sucking wind at the end of doing one form, that you're not doing it right, no matter how many years you've been training. You can always do the stances lower, and can always do the form slower. Try doing first form slowly, over a period of 6 or 7 minutes, with stances as low as you can go - and then compare that to any other training.

In my experience, the opposite is true much of the time. If you are rushing through your sets, breakneck speed, and breathing really hard at the end, you likely have a lot to learn about what you are doing in general.

[MasterKiller]

Because in my opinion it won't be as effective as forms training.

Effective as what, exactlt?

Circuit training is much more efficient than forms training for cardio performance. That's a fact.

Doing the forms correct, with low stances, is the best strength and endurance training you can get.

No, doing forms correctly makes you good at doing forms. While you can use them as a tool to enhance your flexibility and structural/alignment training, they are not, by any means, the most efficient or most effective way to spend your time if you are looking to increase your cardiovascular endurance in a fight (which is what you were talking about originally).

Afterall, how long does it take you to even learn the form correctly before you can even begin to modify the way you practice it?

If you aren't sucking wind at the end of doing one form, that you're not doing it right, no matter how many years you've been training. You can always do the stances lower, and can always do the form slower. Try doing first form slowly, over a period of 6 or 7 minutes, with stances as low as you can go - and then compare that to any other training.

I have done my forms like that, and I've also done circuit training. There is no comparison as far as cardio training. None at all.

You do 3 Tabata rounds of 8 exercises and see how much wind you are sucking.

I have students reguarly puke in my classes. How often do you puke after doing forms?

[wetwonder]

Effective as what, exactlt?

Circuit training is much more efficient than forms training for cardio performance. That's a fact.

No, doing forms correctly makes you good at doing forms. While you can use them as a tool to enhance your flexibility and structural/alignment training, they are not, by any means, the most efficient or most effective way to spend your time if you are looking to increase your cardiovascular endurance in a fight (which is what you were talking about originally).

Afterall, how long does it take you to even learn the form correctly before you can even begin to modify the way you practice it?


I have done my forms like that, and I've also done circuit training. There is no comparison as far as cardio training. None at all.

You do 3 Tabata rounds of 8 exercises and see how much wind you are sucking.

I have students reguarly puke in my classes. How often do you puke after doing forms?

You are wrong. The reason I know that is because I'm right. The fact is - any activity can be tailored to be as tough as any other. To argue that one is more strenuous than another is silly.

It's like snowboarding. Some folks brag that they "never fall." If you don't fall, it simply means your not challenging yourself enough. If you don't suck wind after doing a form, you're not pushing yourself. Same goes for circuit training, or anything else.

Folks do forms b/c they like to. Can't argue with what people like to do. Or maybe you can, I don't know. I guess you can, b/c you are.

[sanjuro_ronin]

You do 3 Tabata rounds of 8 exercises and see how much wind you are sucking.

I have students reguarly puke in my classes. How often do you puke after doing forms?

Can you expand on that?

[hskwarrior]

I totally agree with masterkiller in regards to forms being the best way to develop your endurance. By doing forms slow, and in a deep horse only allows you enough endurance to complete the form. While circuit training will enhance your overall endurance.

In fact, my students practice their sets both super slow and super quick. And, their just winded at the end. But when i include circuit training along with forms practice, my students have actually vomited immediately after a semi hardcore type of circuit training workout.

To be a more complete martial artist, forms are only one aspect of being one. It's one thing being able to perform a set or form crisply, strongly, and explosively. But, what good will that do you if you have no clue in how to use what you just performed?

However, I still love my forms. When you're alone, practicing a form is a very personal experience. No joke. You can get lost in a form, and actually become the form. Yet, as i always say, forms are nothing more than the blueprints of the system. a good carpenter or architect would look at the blue print, get to know it, and then when it's absorbed, are able to modify it based off his or her own knowledge of what they've studied and trained for. it;s at the point you can take from your forms, and learn various ways to use what's in them.