Shaolin Ape-Monkey Fist

[Sal Canzonieri]

Sal, you mentioned Shorinjikempo. I recall reading that the founder was Doshin So, who visited the Shaolin Temple, and upon seeing the frescos on the wall of the Shaolin Monks practicing, he was inspired to create Shorinji Kempo. This was all in the twentieth century, so I would be somewhat skeptical on its authenticity in regards to a real connection to Shaolin.

yes, correct that specific person did do that, I meant it in a more general sense, in that there is documented evidence (names, dates, etc.) of people from Japan that had visited Shaolin in previous centuries (Ming and Qing) that brought back Shaolin KF to Japan. I called this material, for lack of a better name, Shorinjikempo, but you are right that is a specific style, while i meant it more as a general way of saying Japanese Shaolin derived KF.

[Sal Canzonieri]

Hello There,

I am a Disciple of Shi Yong Wen in Kaifeng. We have 2 monkey sets you may be interested in. I am certain its not the exact one you are looking for, but it should be interesting nevertheless. The set is mainly striking movements with the relaxed monkey hand and the monkey paw. It has a few xiang xing movements, i.e most of the blocks use the 'shading the eyes' movement. Here is a Video link, it appears about 6-7 min in, but i think you will enjoy the whole video.

http://www.56.com/u14/v_MTc2OTUzMDc.html

The set is called 'Da Sheng Xing Zhi' ....I think.... It refers to the great pilgrim, almost certainly a reference to SunWuKong the monkey king. There is an accompanying staff form, also more practical than theatric, also with two sets. My master is now nearly 70, his father was a famous Martial Artist in Kaifeng (shaolin Pai) and in his younger days travelled over china to find good masters. He learned this from an old man in Tianjin who in turn learned it from shaolin when he was young. I am not clear if it is from shaolin temple or from dengfeng county, but it is shaolin pai.

We also have Yuan Hou Bang, but this set has no monkey like moves what so ever, just the name. It should also be noted that the Shaolin Temple Tong Bei Quan (now referred to as 'xiao tongbei') is descended from a monkey like form (tong bei yuan quan). Even today some versions of the set still have a slight monkey feel, i.e the first move xu bu is done with monkey paws in some versions. Also when you turn to the side with a block after xie xing some versions shade the eyes like in a monkey form. The current version as was practiced by Xiu Xi and now by Deyang has no monkey reference. Many forms called Tong Bei are descended from Tong bei yuan quan.

Shi Yong Wen is recovered from a recent illness and is now accepting foreign disciples....He in his time has trained under great masters such as Degen and Wu shan Lin. If anyone is interested in training here please reply to me.

Cool, Kaifeng is famous for having preserved Shaolin sets that are no longer even practiced at Shaolin itself any longer.
I see in that video link a part of the Xin Yi Quan set, which was once called Shaolin Xing Quan (Walking or Traveling Boxing), a set that was derived from Ji Long feng's visits to Shaolin and also related to ancient Tong Bei Quan (developed by Dong Cheng). That set has been written about in a lot of research papers. It has much overlap with Chen Tai Ji Quan. I wrote a bunch about it in my upcoming book.

Well, that monkey set is VERY MUCH like the set I am talking about, I was surprised, it is the first time I have seen anything close to it. I had heard that the one I am looking for a video of was practiced in the Kaifeng area as well as the Dengfeng area.
It'd like to see the Yuan Hou Bang sent then, now I am very curious.

THANKS!

[mawali]

Fixed it.

Hey Sal, you do research so I was wondering your take on the Karate jow question in the SD thread. Don't know if you followed it but it's my understanding that the Chinese withheld knowledge of jow from the Japanese so traditionally they don't use any for their hand conditioning.

Do you have anything concerning this issue?

Yao Sing.

I do not think that the Chinese withheld knowledge but that the Japanese were diligent in taking tools related to their disposition. I was in Okinawa in the late 70's- early 80's and most of Okinawan martial tradition is South China Crane style(s).

An interesting observation is that the samurai sword routine is taken from a (Wudang source- at least where it remains today) and it is interesting how that occurence took place to keep that tradition alive for centuries!

[Sal Canzonieri]

Yao Sing.

I do not think that the Chinese withheld knowledge but that the Japanese were diligent in taking tools related to their disposition. I was in Okinawa in the late 70's- early 80's and most of Okinawan martial tradition is South China Crane style(s).

An interesting observation is that the samurai sword routine is taken from a (Wudang source- at least where it remains today) and it is interesting how that occurence took place to keep that tradition alive for centuries!

I haven't seen anything saying that they withheld the information, the recipes for it were out in the open in the various old Shaolin manuals.

[LFJ]

My master does it the same as Suxi and Deyang. Actually they don't start with the monkey paw, they stab with the fingers 'white snake spits venom'.

right, they stab with the fingers and the posture's name is "white snake spits venom". however, the fingers arent completely straight and the hand is not flat like a board as in snake style.

the thumb is tucked under the four fingers which are all slightly curved as if holding/pinching something with the fingertips. this is one of the monkey hand-forms.

In Wu Seng Hou Bei Dui (deyangs school in DengFeng) and in Deyangs videos he does it with straight fingers,

the videos dont teach in much detail and are bare-bones basic commercial versions, but if you look closely, it is done with a type of monkey paw, rather than snake hand. he even turns his hands toward the camera to show the hand-shape. he also talks about the "monkey claw" in the set.

[RenDaHai]

@LFJ

Right, I stand corrected.

Never the less there are versions which use a much more exaggerated monkey paw with the wrist fully.... limp and the fingers splayed, thumb forced slightly towards little finger, and they drop the wrists downward as if grasping something rather than shooting foreward.

[Sal Canzonieri]

right, they stab with the fingers and the posture's name is "white snake spits venom". however, the fingers arent completely straight and the hand is not flat like a board as in snake style.

the thumb is tucked under the four fingers which are all slightly curved as if holding/pinching something with the fingertips. this is one of the monkey hand-forms.



the videos dont teach in much detail and are bare-bones basic commercial versions, but if you look closely, it is done with a type of monkey paw, rather than snake hand. he even turns his hands toward the camera to show the hand-shape. he also talks about the "monkey claw" in the set.

The hand posture is called Ren Shou, "acknowledgement hands", like two old Chinese ladies greeting each other by touching their knuckles together of their hands, everyone has seen this hand gesture in many old movies and so on.

In application it is a sudden wipe of the opponent's brow that sends him off balance and tipping over to the ground, or else feel a broken or sprained neck if showing any resistance.

[LFJ]

Sal, my friend... I have quite a treat for you!

Finally found it, a complete demonstration of Shaolin Yuanhouquan, performed by Master Cui Xiqi in front of the temple.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUeU-40062A

None of that theatrical monkey crap here!

[Crosshandz]

Sal, my friend... I have quite a treat for you!

Finally found it, a complete demonstration of Shaolin Yuanhouquan, performed by Master Cui Xiqi in front of the temple.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUeU-40062A

None of that theatrical monkey crap here!

[ShaolinDan]

That was a neat clip. Thanks.

[rett]

Yeah, really nice clip, thanks.

[Xian]

Thank you very much for that.


Kind regards,
Xian

[Sal Canzonieri]

Sal, my friend... I have quite a treat for you!

Finally found it, a complete demonstration of Shaolin Yuanhouquan, performed by Master Cui Xiqi in front of the temple.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUeU-40062A

None of that theatrical monkey crap here!

Wow, thanks! Much appreciated!

DISREGARD the following, I was wrong it is the full set! [But, unfortunately, it's not the full version. It is missing the ending section, it stops right when it would have started.]

That other video of mixed Shaolin sets on Youtube that (you?) was pointed out to me last year has an old man doing the full version of the set, he does it real fast, but all the movements are there, EXCEPT the very end.

Do you know which video it was?

[Sal Canzonieri]

Does anyone notice the Chen TJQ movements inside of this monkey set?

it has quite a few, done in monkey style, but they are there, almost the whole first section is the beginning of the Chen Yi Lu set, complete with single whip and so on.

[LFJ]

That other video of mixed Shaolin sets on Youtube that (you?) was pointed out to me last year has an old man doing the full version of the set, he does it real fast, but all the movements are there.

Do you know which video it was?

It only had a very short clip of him doing the set. It kind of started and ended in the middle. I haven't seen a full version of the film.

It's at 2:20 here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uTGE_IxC2w