Shaolin Ape-Monkey Fist

[Sal Canzonieri]

If it's jumping around like a monkey I'm not interested (and too old and out of shape) but if it's fighting moves I'll make the effort to learn.

More than half of the file is warm up moves then it shows the 26 postures. Some of it looks a little familiar.

Sal, where are you in Jersey. Haven't been back there in years but I'm about due for a family visit soon.

I am in the Morristown area, Morris County.
Starting in the late summer, early fall I will be teaching for the town where I live at one of the recreation centers.

[Yao Sing]

My family is in Ocean County on the coast. Maybe I should plan an end of summer trip. I'll let you you if I head up that way.

[Baqualin]

Hey Yao,
Your PM box is full...wouldn't let me send anything.
BQ

[Yao Sing]

Fixed it.

Hey Sal, you do research so I was wondering your take on the Karate jow question in the SD thread. Don't know if you followed it but it's my understanding that the Chinese withheld knowledge of jow from the Japanese so traditionally they don't use any for their hand conditioning.

Do you have anything concerning this issue?

[Sal Canzonieri]

Fixed it.

Hey Sal, you do research so I was wondering your take on the Karate jow question in the SD thread. Don't know if you followed it but it's my understanding that the Chinese withheld knowledge of jow from the Japanese so traditionally they don't use any for their hand conditioning.

Do you have anything concerning this issue?

Hmm, interesting, but I never pursued any research in that direction.
I've always researched the transmission of teaching material from one style to another.

One thing to look into is the availability of the herbs necessary to make jow.
Maybe in Japan there is not the same access to certain herbs to make the jow preparation.

Also, during the 1500s, there are records showing that the Japanese were studying at Shaolin and preserved many traditional things from there that are no longer done there now (this is covered in Shahar's The Shaolin Monastery book).
The medicinal aspect was part of the Shaolin tradition of that time period.
Perhaps it did go to Japan, but it was there that it eventually was lost over time.
This would be the Shorinjikempo line, they would be where you would look.

The Karate line is from Okinawa and that ultimately comes from the southern chinese traditions of 5 Ancestors style.
One would have to compare the Southern 5 Ancestor's style and their use of herbal jow preparations or not and compare / contrast to Okinawan traditions and Japanese Karate and Shorinjikempo traditions.

[Yao Sing]

Thanks for the info. It gives me a direction to look.

[LFJ]

here's a video with a very short clip of a combative monkey boxing set, starting at 0:54.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ma0Rv...e=channel_page

[Sal Canzonieri]

here's a video with a very short clip of a combative monkey boxing set, starting at 0:54.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ma0Rv...e=channel_page

Cool, liked that.
But still not the Shaolin Ape-monkey set I am looking for a video of.

[LFJ]

have you seen this yuanhougun set? its pretty neat.
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNTQ0OTg1ODg=.html

[Sal Canzonieri]

have you seen this yuanhougun set? its pretty neat.
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNTQ0OTg1ODg=.html

Yep, saw it, thanks.
Shaanxi area is famous for their Monkey Staff and Stick sets.

[TenTigers]

Sal, you mentioned Shorinjikempo. I recall reading that the founder was Doshin So, who visited the Shaolin Temple, and upon seeing the frescos on the wall of the Shaolin Monks practicing, he was inspired to create Shorinji Kempo. This was all in the twentieth century, so I would be somewhat skeptical on its authenticity in regards to a real connection to Shaolin.

[GeneChing]

...I had made a comment on the universality of liniments on the Muay Thai tiedajiu thread.

I've always been at odds with westerners truncating the term ditdajow to jow. Jow on it's own means 'wine'.

[TenTigers]

my Chinese teachers have always used the term, "Jow" for dit da jow.
What bothers me is hearing "westerners" calling it,"dit."
That makes me cringe.
I also cringe when I here people call WCK 'The Chun," refer to Gung-Fu as "the Fu,"etc.

[GeneChing]

I've heard Chinese refer to it as jow too, so perhaps I was too harsh on Westerners. And I totally agree with you on dit and 'the chun.' I've never heard someone say 'the chun'. That's really funny.

But I like fu as a suffix. Web fu, troll fu, nacho fu, I use that a lot.

[LFJ]

Even today some versions of the set still have a slight monkey feel, i.e the first move xu bu is done with monkey paws in some versions. Also when you turn to the side with a block after xie xing some versions shade the eyes like in a monkey form. The current version as was practiced by Xiu Xi and now by Deyang has no monkey reference.

not actually true.

master deyang's version from ven. suxi begins with the same xubu monkey claw technique, and the block after xiexing is done the way master yongwen did it in the video you linked to. definitely the same amount of "monkey feel".