Abdominal Breathing in Strong Physical Exercises

[SteveLau]

It is often said that abdominal breathing is good for strong physical exercises. I have just tried so in jogging, with sprint too. I found that I was less tired, and thus faster in recovering my breath. Upper lung breathing is voluntary and needs one to expend more energy. So the question that I have in mind is - is there any good in upper lung breathing then?



Regards,

KC
Hong Kong

[taai gihk yahn]

It is often said that abdominal breathing is good for strong physical exercises. I have just tried so in jogging, with sprint too. I found that I was less tired, and thus faster in recovering my breath. Upper lung breathing is voluntary and needs one to expend more energy. So the question that I have in mind is - is there any good in upper lung breathing then?



Regards,

KC
Hong Kong

well, to start with, these terms, though not incorrect, are somewhat less precise than they could be - "abdominal" versus "upper lung"; to be a bit more specific, it's better, IMHO, to consider the degree of relative recruitment of the different muscles of respiration: for the "abdominal" style breathing, the emphasis is on maximal excursion of the respiratory diaphragm; for "upper lung" it is more usage of the accessory respiratory muscles: scalenes, sternocleidomastoid, pectorals; also, in both cases, the intercostals are working as well, to varying degrees depending on location emphasis;

that said, as far as your question - I think it is an interesting one; I am not sure that there is a definitive answer either - in general, the tendency is to believe that respiration using the resp. diaph. is "better", as it does pull more air into the lungs; certainly, it has a more relaxatory effect on the system in general; this appears to have a parasympathetic effect; 'upper" chest breathing tends to have the opposite effect, relating more to a stress / sympathetic response - and people who are accessory muscle breathers tend to be under more generalized stress as well - it creates sort of a feed back loop, where you get "stuck" breathing w/the accessories;

however, I personally believe that depending on the circumstances, the body will "naturally" adopt one or the other style of breathing, depending on what it wants to do: my personal experience is based on what I find happens when I adopt a relaxed posture (usually a yoga "corpse" posture), and just allow the breath to self-regulate: this can involve any combination of deep inhales / exhales as well as relative shallow / fast ones - the sequence can mix unpredictable (e.g. - a few cycles of deep breaths spontaneously followed by more rapid ones); there can also be deep holds: inhaling all the way and the breath "stopping" for a while (or exhale as well); in other words, my subjective sense is that the body "uses" the shallow breathing as part of its overall strategy to self-regulate the breath; after some time of doing this (5 - 10 min., approx.), there will be a shift into a more regular, deeper breath, but to get there there is that period of almost erratic breath that includes shallow / "upper" chest breathing; again, this is my personal experience, it works for me;

so, in that particular case, at least, I find that sort of "upper" breathing to be beneficial, as part of an overall process;

curious to hear more of your thoughts / experiences on the matter

[sanjuro_ronin]

however, I personally believe that depending on the circumstances, the body will "naturally" adopt one or the other style of breathing, depending on what it wants to do: my personal experience is based on what I find happens when I adopt a relaxed posture (usually a yoga "corpse" posture), and just allow the breath to self-regulate: this can involve any combination of deep inhales / exhales as well as relative shallow / fast ones - the sequence can mix unpredictable (e.g. - a few cycles of deep breaths spontaneously followed by more rapid ones); there can also be deep holds: inhaling all the way and the breath "stopping" for a while (or exhale as well); in other words, my subjective sense is that the body "uses" the shallow breathing as part of its overall strategy to self-regulate the breath; after some time of doing this (5 - 10 min., approx.), there will be a shift into a more regular, deeper breath, but to get there there is that period of almost erratic breath that includes shallow / "upper" chest breathing; again, this is my personal experience, it works for me;

I agree, I noticed this too.
I don't recall a Stength coach ever telling mt to "reverse breathe" when I did a deadlift ( for example), but I did it, naturally.

[chaiwai]

Abdominal breathing is good for sharp exhalations such as when you punch. I am not sure you can breath deeply all the the time, let's say when you are sparring.

[SteveLau]

Gentlemen, thanks for your posts first.

taai gihk yahn,
I like your post. Because of its technicality, it looks like you have considerable knowledge in sports science.

chaiwai,
Yes, we cannot and need not breathe deeply all the times during sparring. However
abdominal breathing and deep breathing is necessary and good during vigorous activity like sparring. Case in point - I have seen a sparring session (preliminary). Not contact has occurred. It lasted for about 30 seconds because one side said he needed to stop. He was out of breath. I strongly believe what happened was mainly because he had no good breathing skill.

Perhaps I should rephrase my question. What usage does upper lung (chest) breathing have in strong physical exercises?



Regards,

KC
Hong Kong

[Lacerto]

I learned a breathing technique that incorporates both. Before I was taught this I practiced diaphragm breathing for about 3-6 months while meditating. Sifu called it 'Reverse Breathing' or 'Fire Breathing'

• Breath in for 6 seconds from the diaphragm.
• Hold 2-3 Seconds
• Breath in for 6 seconds from the lungs, or upper chest, or whatever.
• Hold 2-3 seconds
• Exhale lungs for 6 seconds
• Hold for 2-3 seconds
• Exhale diaphragm for 6 seconds
• Hold 2-3 seconds with no air

Obviously you can adjust the times with whatever you're comfortable with, you don't want to over exert yourself and cause damage to your diaphragm or who knows what else.

Something I just caught myself doing that you want to watch out for, make sure that you are drawing in new air with your lungs and not simply moving the air from the diaphragm to the lungs.

I was told to use this for standing meditation. I've since used it while running (without the pausing and the times, just whatever timing is necessary), weight training, obviously while drilling forms, and while swimming.

I was told this generates more qi than normal breathing or diaphragm breathing. I've combined it with some beginner visualization with pretty interesting results.

[Mr Punch]

well, to start with, these terms, though not incorrect, are somewhat less precise than they could be...

For once I think your semantic differences here are not so important as what's being done.

so, in that particular case, at least, I find that sort of "upper" breathing to be beneficial, as part of an overall process;

curious to hear more of your thoughts / experiences on the matter

Well, in quite a few yoga texts I've read (by doctors and some fairly high yoga types) they've described upper breathing as inefficient and not so good. But that's if it's untrained. As part of a full yogic breathing regime and then introduced into your daily life, well, at first you see this breath and that breath, and then you see a breath is just a breath...

But yeah, I do find upper breathing, rabbit breathing etc all have their uses, from weightlifting to martial arts to sitting on the toilet...

[Mr Punch]

I learned a breathing technique that incorporates both. Before I was taught this I practiced diaphragm breathing for about 3-6 months while meditating. Sifu called it 'Reverse Breathing' or 'Fire Breathing'...

Sounds pretty much like yogic sectional breathing. The details would be how you use your muscles exactly and the positions of your abdomen.

I was told this generates more qi than normal breathing or diaphragm breathing.

Well, since qi basically means breath, yeah, you can safely say deep breathing generates more breath than normal breathing!

I've combined it with some beginner visualization with pretty interesting results.

Go on then, what would they be?

[Hardwork108]

It is often said that abdominal breathing is good for strong physical exercises. I have just tried so in jogging, with sprint too. I found that I was less tired, and thus faster in recovering my breath. Upper lung breathing is voluntary and needs one to expend more energy. So the question that I have in mind is - is there any good in upper lung breathing then?



Regards,

KC
Hong Kong

What everybody seems to have missed is the fact the correct lower abdominal breathing is taught in many authentic kung fu schools and plays a fundamental part in power issuance during strikes. Various types of expansion in the lower abdomen and kidney areas coordinated with "sinking" will reflect on the impact of one's strikes. This takes practice and is part and parcel of training many authentic kung fu styles.

I was always taught that relaxed lower abdominal breathing would also help general stamina during training and combat. I was also taught that keeping the breathing in the lower abdomen during daily activity was beneficial for general health and longevity.

On the other hand, I was taught that upper body breathing was not healthy nor natural.

[TaichiMantis]

It is often said that abdominal breathing is good for strong physical exercises. I have just tried so in jogging, with sprint too. I found that I was less tired, and thus faster in recovering my breath. Upper lung breathing is voluntary and needs one to expend more energy. So the question that I have in mind is - is there any good in upper lung breathing then?



Regards,

KC
Hong Kong

Yes, when giving birth!

[Egg fu young]

During boxing the breaths are seemingly more shallow exhaled during each punch. When you go to the corner your cornerman sometimes pulls the front of your trunks and has you deep breath to re supply your starved body with oxygen but other then that it's been my experience that most intense exercise usually has me breathing from the top of my chest not the bottom.

[Mr Punch]

What everybody seems to have missed is the fact the correct lower abdominal breathing is taught in many authentic kung fu schools and plays a fundamental part in power issuance during strikes. Various types of expansion in the lower abdomen and kidney areas coordinated with "sinking" will reflect on the impact of one's strikes. This takes practice and is part and parcel of training many authentic kung fu styles.

I was always taught that relaxed lower abdominal breathing would also help general stamina during training and combat. I was also taught that keeping the breathing in the lower abdomen during daily activity was beneficial for general health and longevity.

On the other hand, I was taught that upper body breathing was not healthy nor natural.

That's interesting. It seems that your kung fu is incomplete. Styles that deal with breathing more completely should teach lower and upper... This only breathing into the tanden thing is overemphasized, and wrong.

There are many cases where 'upper breathing' is natural and healthy, in fighting and other activities.

I'm not dissing your sifu, but many people seem to comment on things they haven't experienced. I've met people who say 'grapplers come in like this' when they obviously haven't trained any grappling. Saying that there is only one kind of breathing is just demonstrating you have no experience of other kinds. It's wrong.

[Hardwork108]

That's interesting. It seems that your kung fu is incomplete. Styles that deal with breathing more completely should teach lower and upper... This only breathing into the tanden thing is overemphasized, and wrong.

There are many cases where 'upper breathing' is natural and healthy, in fighting and other activities.

That is interesting. What cases would you say were occasions which upper breathing would be better (as regards combat training)?

I'm not dissing your sifu, but many people seem to comment on things they haven't experienced.

I was just explaining the way I was taught at my school. That is all.

I've met people who say 'grapplers come in like this' when they obviously haven't trained any grappling. Saying that there is only one kind of breathing is just demonstrating you have no experience of other kinds. It's wrong.

Or it could just be a credible TCMA philosophy which is not that common?

[anerlich]

Abdominal breathing is generally prescribed for moderate activity and encourages relaxation. Coordination of exhalation with movement may amplify the power of explosive movements.

Heavy lifting, power hitting and the like require intraabdominal pressure, i.e making the core into a unit. Deep breathing into and out of the abdomen during a slow, heavy lift, or sustained isometric contraction (like holding the end of a heavy object up, or the contraction phase of PNF stretching) may be counterproductive and increase the risk of injury due to the lack of constant tension in the core.

In such situations, of sustained heavy effort, shallow breathing into the upper cavity may be a better option.

THis probably isn't real healthy over sustained periods, but neither is injury because you weren't properly internally braced to handle the strain.

RMA has breathing drills where they work on upper, middle, and lower (diagphragmatic) breathing, and the coordination of that breathing with movement and body alignment.

[Lee Chiang Po]

The whole purpose of breathing is to supply the body and brain with lots of oxygen. Hard physical activity as well as adreneline will eat it up quickly. Breathing deep by using the gut or diaphram will pull air down into the entire lung, giving you greater absorbtion of oxygen. Breathing at the top of the lung is nothing more than shallow breathing, which falls short of the job unless you breath rapidly, which then amounts to hyperventilating. We can see the results of this when a well oiled machine of a fighter becomes very tired in a short time. It is not always easy to maintain proper breathing when under stress or attack. That is why it is usually trained. Under normal circumstances, like when at rest or even sleeping everyone breaths deep. It is normal, but that can all change when things warm up. The idea it to practice it consciously as you walk, jog, or whatever you do. The training of WC tells us to remain as relaxed as we can and still be able to move quickly and with power, which does save energy and does not as quickly deplete our oxygen supply, and deep diaphram breathing is designed to keep your oxygen level up and constant.
Although we do tend to breath shallow at times and under certain conditions, it is inefficient at best and I can not think of any real benefits of such.