Kung-Fu Schools & Ground fighting

[EarthDragon]

yutyeesam, yes the ground work was added to our school of mantis to accomadate the fighting environment and arena. you must fight thier fight. if you go to syberia and fight you better train with heavy clothes on or you will loose, when you train in the mountains you better get the breath acclimated first etc etc

tradtionally as someone said shuai chiao chinese wresttling ended with a throw, fighting on the ground was compred to 2 dogs rolling in the dirt.

everyone should cross train if they are looking to be fighter for a living. otherwise you will loose . Now the argument comes if I dont want to train to fight in a cage and just want to learn the art of kung fu for onesself who needs ground fighting? or iron palm, or shin conditioning?

[yutyeesam]

i just have no interest in it, it doesn't do anything for me. same thing with karate, i respect it. it just doesn't do anything for me. i like kung fu better.

kung fu guys should practice those stances more that they neglect so much. if you have a strong of enough base and know how to use them, you will be very hard to move. or so said an ancient Chinese man

Thanks for the explanation. I didn't mean to pry, but you are definitely not alone in not having an interest in it, which is why I think, some schools have it as a separate class.

Some men have a very intense fear of h0m0ph0bia and don't even want to try - that's one reason I ran across on why some people have no interest in it. For others, the outward appearance of it is intimidating and turns them off.

I'm always curious to know if something doesn't interest someone in martial arts, why that is, because chances are, it's the same for a lot of other people as well.

[yutyeesam]

yutyeesam, yes the ground work was added to our school of mantis to accomadate the fighting environment and arena. you must fight thier fight. if you go to syberia and fight you better train with heavy clothes on or you will loose, when you train in the mountains you better get the breath acclimated first etc etc

tradtionally as someone said shuai chiao chinese wresttling ended with a throw, fighting on the ground was compred to 2 dogs rolling in the dirt.

everyone should cross train if they are looking to be fighter for a living. otherwise you will loose . Now the argument comes if I dont want to train to fight in a cage and just want to learn the art of kung fu for onesself who needs ground fighting? or iron palm, or shin conditioning?

Thanks ED for the explanation.

As for the very good point you raised if someone doesn't want to train to fight, why do it? I don't know about Iron Palm or Shin conditioning, but the groundfighting can be talked about in (and forgive me for being a CMA fruitcake for a second) terms of the Tao, and free flowing organic interchanges. I know, I know, but hear me out...

The same type of flowing interchanges in striking, upright continuous Kam La (Chin Na) reversals and counters, clinching-throw interchanges, weapons (more from the Kali/Escrima systems), and now the ground. The idea of flow and continuity are consistent with the groundfighting. It's a different medium for the same principles of a constant and fluid interchange.
/my fruitcake talk

[Shaolinlueb]

Thanks for the explanation. I didn't mean to pry, but you are definitely not alone in not having an interest in it, which is why I think, some schools have it as a separate class.

your welcome, i didn't think of it as prying.

Some men have a very intense fear of h0m0ph0bia and don't even want to try - that's one reason I ran across on why some people have no interest in it. For others, the outward appearance of it is intimidating and turns them off.

haha. i can see why some people think that. this is not mine

I'm always curious to know if something doesn't interest someone in martial arts, why that is, because chances are, it's the same for a lot of other people as well.

i guess. i mean i see the use of it, i see the practicallity of it. but i dont see myself devoting the time to it like i do kung fu. kung fu is fun for me, bjj isn't.

[Lokhopkuen]

Interesting. Would you say that all the other schools that practice your style, which from your sig is Northern Shaolim (did you mean ShaoliN with an "N"?) all know how to do this, and it is standardized?

In other words, I could go to 10 Northern Shaolim (?) schools around the country and all the teachers would know and be adept in this form of groundfighting?

I only ask because it seems that if only one school of a style does it, that usually indicates that it is either not in the standard curriculum or the teacher is taking things from the outside and incorporating it. Nothing wrong with that at all - but I'm a bit skeptical when people say the CMA's have groundfighting strategies that are similar to BJJ...so, I'm just cross referencing.

it almost leads to what bawang was saying earlier:

"except in 10 years not call it ju jit su but crouching panther tanglang taiji shaolin emei wudang quan traditional chinese ground kung fu!!! bjj ? gracie who? no we had this for thousands of years OMG YES LOLO"

I could not speak for other Northern Shaolim schools only I can talk about what i learned from my teacher. Ours is a unique situation since my Teacher is a rather unique practitioner
.
Personally I am not 'style stuck', I use what works.

However I've found that the tool box created via our method of personal cultivation has contained a tool and solution for all I have encountered thus far.

Now as far as your belief or disbelief you'll have to work it out for yourself since I'm here to prove nothing. I'm just sharing some info bro.

[yutyeesam]

LHK-
Thanks for sharing the info.
-123

[Lokhopkuen]

Weather you're standing up or laying down, combat is combat.
BJJ didn't invent ground fighting, they just exhibited a unique approach.

A punch is a punch, a kick just a kick, a lock is but a lock and a throw is a throw. These are the basic four options in combat each one specialized alone or in combination.

How you train those principles is called style.

There is an interesting phenomenon a foot.

Jujitsu was the most prominent style of martial art in Japan at one time and eventually was displaced in popularity by another style.
Some of the practitioners of Jujitsu disgruntled by this loss of fame and income shamed themselves and the style through resorting to brutality and dishonorable conduct.

The style never died but was practiced quietly and seriously holding to the codes of bushido as a form of self defense and self cultivation.

It gained prominence again recently when some of the talented gentleman practitioners from the Americas displayed it's use with devastating effectiveness against imposing formidable opponents.

I salute them.

They won some, they lost some yet they remained serious genteman practitioners.

Now due to their hard work and fame almost any would be bad a s s brings up the name BJJ in an internet forum or over bold words at a bar likened to calling incantation for the boogie man and everyone quiets down afraid?

I wonder how those gentlemen feel about the posers with all sorts of bad attitude and foul words riding the crest of a wave they have no right to even let a little bit of it splash over their ankles?

All martial arts are grand and special, all are serious and dangerous, all can raise the spirit, improve health and lead to unification of self.

Just something to think about.

[Lokhopkuen]

how can one expect to stay on their feet, if they dont even know how to stand well.

Well said!

The stance is fundamental. In particular Ma Bu, Riding the Horse stance has a special place. Most of the people who are not prime examples, yet claiming expertise in Chinese martial art lack the root basics.

how can one expect to stay on their feet, if they dont even know how to stand well.

That was one of the big wake up calls for me. I was so intrigued with the beauty and fluidity of Gung Fu performance that I skimped on my basic training and pursued the flowery movement and high kicks without first grounding myself in the most basic aspects of my beloved art. After shaming myself for years I went back and cleaned up what should have been job one. Till this day i still suffer from my mistake through accumulative injury and bad habits.

Slowly I am learning. Slowly.

[EarthDragon]

lokhopkuen
Now due to their hard work and fame almost any would be bad a s s brings up the name BJJ in an internet forum or over bold words at a bar likened to calling incantation for the boogie man and everyone quiets down afraid?

I wonder how those gentlemen feel about the posers with all sorts of bad attitude and foul words riding the crest of a wave they have no right to even let a little bit of it splash over their ankles?

All martial arts are grand and special, all are serious and dangerous, all can raise the spirit, improve health and lead to unification of self.

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

profound statement and my vote for quote of the year! You are a true MA in my book, my hats goes off to you..... be well

[bawang]

is anyone trained in ditang kung fu? is it possible to use for ground fighting?

[MasterKiller]

is anyone trained in ditang kung fu? is it possible to use for ground fighting?

Groundfighting, in the sense of BJJ/Sambo/Judo, is really more about positional dominance than anything else. Ditang, while training flexibility and break-falling, does little to address how to control positions.

[Shaolinlueb]

Groundfighting, in the sense of BJJ/Sambo/Judo, is really more about positional dominance than anything else. Ditang, while training flexibility and break-falling, does little to address how to control positions.

dude MK, we all know kung fu was made on the battlefield and if you rolled on the ground in the battle field, you would be dead!!! don't forget that.

and excuse me, I have to go put my armor on, grab my spear and head to battle!!!

[MasterKiller]

dude MK, we all know kung fu was made on the battlefield and if you rolled on the ground in the battle field, you would be dead!!! don't forget that.

Yeah, but I'm not on a battlefield.

Adapt the technique and make it your own.

[Lokhopkuen]

is anyone trained in ditang kung fu? is it possible to use for ground fighting?

De Tan in Gong Tong Wa.

You be knowing sum stuffs

[Lokhopkuen]

lokhopkuen
Now due to their hard work and fame almost any would be bad a s s brings up the name BJJ in an internet forum or over bold words at a bar likened to calling incantation for the boogie man and everyone quiets down afraid?

I wonder how those gentlemen feel about the posers with all sorts of bad attitude and foul words riding the crest of a wave they have no right to even let a little bit of it splash over their ankles?

All martial arts are grand and special, all are serious and dangerous, all can raise the spirit, improve health and lead to unification of self.

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

profound statement and my vote for quote of the year! You are a true MA in my book, my hats goes off to you..... be well

Brothers we bees