Page 1 of 7 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 94

Thread: Another good clip...

  1. #1

    Another good clip...

    http://www.michaelkurth.com/index.ph...d=15&Itemid=19

    lots of other clips on site...no prizes for guessing the teacher.

    I added an article translated from German to English with Babel fish but its a good read...
    Chi Sao is one of the central exercises of the Ving of Tsun style. Mostly with ' Sticking Hände' shown, this translation tempts to large misunderstandings and does not reflect not the actual extensive meaning for the development of the aggressive talents of the practicing again. It actually concerns in this exercise complex neither only the hands/arms, the whole of the body and spirit is rather demanded, nor a ' becomes; Kleben/stuck to' , speak a passive following that Opposing arm, fixing on these, desired, since this would mean the opponent and its acting delivered its (that this helps, might itself to defeat be rather improbable probably). A further wide-spread misunderstanding concerning this exercise is that it itself thereby around (e) a feeling training/- training acts, in the sense that the user can purely defeat the opponent due to his Tastsinnes. That certain contact reflexes are developed, only this is correct from our other senses to uncouple with the reason that this sense is not manipulatable, corresponds to A. the reality and would not be b. unklug (why one should do without advantages voluntarily???). Straight in the Ving Tsun one uses pressure (via Tastsinn) evenly often also to tempt around the opponent for certain actions and that very successfully. Thus now does the question, which, arise, and/or for which this exercise is, why it has such a great importance and its relevance exists only with contact (e.g. Infight)? At the beginning it, completely determined general is valid to train combatrelevant behaviors this system with its conception (surely with many other styles according to its adjustment also) of substantial importance are: - Adjustment (frontally turned stand for the opponent) - Simultaneousness (both arms are used fully) - Structural structure (power transmission employment of the total body mass) - Distance (' a feeling for it entwickeln' , in which distance I must be to the opponent, in order to be able to meet this effectively, and/or accordingly, whether the opponent can reach me effectively). If one continues to progress in the exercises, then also the other substantial aspects become effective fully, which are there: - Timing (when I must move) - Understanding of the individual techniques and in the long run the large complex, which is then used in the long run everywhere, ' strategic behavior and Verständnis'. All these talents, one regards these in their Essenz, is not only aspects of the Infights, speaks contact if already exists, but is substantial in all ranges, distances of an argument: As I position myself, my weapons in the area, in relation to the opponent. When I move in or out and in which direction. The opponent can meet me effectively, and/or really reaches I him with full Kraft. As I attack best, as protect myself I most meaningfully, etc., etc. Speak all aspects of the necessary behavior/the necessary abilities can he/worked on become. ' Ability works on werden' and there substantial crack point lies, speaks source of danger, as from a perfect exercise at best a ' Nullrunde' becomes, in the worst possible case even that Behavior affects negatively (e.g. incorrect distance feeling, which chase to opposing hands, Use of means, which means the task of further options in the consequence, etc.), if not in every detail to the conversion/adherence to of the principles and concepts one pays attention. Also Chi Sao training may not become a Ego competition, where it concerns, not to be even only met and different, best still than revenge, to meet from it can a multiplicity of errors (unfavorable combat behavior) likewise develop, like e.g. to carefree attacking, way tricks, forcing, holding away, holding against, u.V.m. Tries one these advantages to thus always attain and is on the other hand endeavored to avoid the errors, one has an exercise, which can really help one in the development. To that extent: Good (qualitative) practicing.
    Maybe someone can edit the parts in german...but you get the 'gist'.
    Last edited by k gledhill; 04-23-2011 at 09:28 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    359
    Here goes my not-so-literal translation. Sorry for the mistakes, English is not my first language:

    Chi-Sao is one of the main exercises in Ving Tsun. The prevalent translation of "Sticky Hands" results in big misconceptions, and does not convey the actual meaning and the fighting skills that it pursues. This drill is not just about hands or arms, but about the whole body and mind. Nor is "sticking" (a passive chasing of the opponent's arms) the goal as this would only only put you at the mercy of your opponent and his actions (it is unlikely that he would do something that would result in your favor). Another widely spread misconception of this drill is that it is a sensitivity drill in the sense that the practitioner will be able to act off solely "feeling" the opponent's actions.

    There is no question that a person acquires certain contact reflexes; however it is not realistic to assume that this occurs in absence of the interaction with all other senses (solely "feeling" would also not be very smart). Ving Tsun makes use of pressure (through the sense of touch) to lead the opponent into certain positions or actions, a strategy at which Ving Tsun excels.

    So the questions that come to mind are: What are the drill's goals? What is its big significance? Is this drill only relevant when in contact?

    It is important to emphasize at the beginning of a person's training habits that are applicable in a general way, that are relevant to fighting, and that correspond to the structure used by the specific boxing method (the latter holds true for many other styles). This is precisely what Chi-Sao does, as it instills the following habits:
    - Facing (standing square with respect to the opponent)
    - Simultaneity (both arms are fully used)
    - Structure (force transfer and engagement of the body as a whole)
    - Sense of distance (develop a sense of what the right distance is to strike effectively or what the distance is from which the opponent can hit you)
    - Timing (when to move)
    - Understanding of the various techniques
    - And finally the key aspects that constantly come into play: strategic behavior and understanding.

    All of these habits or skills are not only important in close quarter fighting, but in all aspects and at all distances during a fight. They are the answers to questions like: What position do I need to assume when considering the spatial relationship with my opponent? When do I move in or out, and in what direction? Can my opponent hit me effectively, or will I be able to hit him with full force? What is the best way to attack him? How do I protect myself effectively? And so on, and so on... Chi-Sao can train all aspects and habits that are necessary for fighting. "Can train" is key here, as an otherwise terrific exercise can quickly become a complete waste of time, or even instill the wrong habits (bad sense of distance, hand chasing, use of resources that put you at a disadvantage, etc.). This is the reason why it is important to focus on faithfully following all principles and concepts.

    Chi-Sao is not an ego-game where you focus on hitting without ever getting hit, which translates into a variety of pitfalls: mistakes and bad habits such as carefree punching, turning away, pushing away, resisting, grabbing, etc.

    Focusing on the abovementioned habits and avoiding the pitfalls will result in a drill that truly helps in your development. I wish this article's reader in this respect (qualitatively) great practice!

  3. #3
    thanks, babel fish didnt do it justice .

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    London
    Posts
    171
    Thanks for the translation made a lot of sense, made me visualize the instincts i have attained by doing this particular drill the part were it talks about knowing when to strike distance etc hit home as only last nite , Some as$% hole was walking towards me with a group of people he let out a load screeching noise while coming towards me I didn't even flinch i looked at him dead in the eye he had a stupid grin on his face I sensed if he broke the boundary of my imaginary circle around me His friends would be cleaning up his Ugly ass off the floor.No question
    Yes Chi soa has many good property's within its make up, one must abide by its Concept and principles and not use it as a fighting egotistical yard stick as some many schools do just my two cents

    Peace

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    North London, England
    Posts
    3,003
    Quote Originally Posted by k gledhill View Post
    http://www.michaelkurth.com/index.ph...d=15&Itemid=19

    lots of other clips on site...no prizes for guessing the teacher.
    Again, a good basic example of looksau/lapsau rather than chisau, in my misinformed opinion!

    BUT a little too 'bullyish' for my liking

    I don't know what the purpose is for the guy taking the continual beating, other than being used as a sandbag? Good for a demo though...
    Ti Fei
    詠春國術

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    NW Arkansas
    Posts
    1,392
    Quote Originally Posted by LoneTiger108 View Post
    Again, a good basic example of looksau/lapsau rather than chisau, in my misinformed opinion!

    BUT a little too 'bullyish' for my liking

    I don't know what the purpose is for the guy taking the continual beating, other than being used as a sandbag? Good for a demo though...
    Yeah, I felt bad for him the whole time, lol.
    It is better to have less thunder in the mouth and more lightning in the hand. - Apache Proverb

  7. #7
    Where are the responces to that article from those who think chi sau is about sensing energy from sticking to arms. Quiet as well as wrong?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by LoneTiger108 View Post
    Again, a good basic example of looksau/lapsau rather than chisau, in my misinformed opinion!

    BUT a little too 'bullyish' for my liking

    I don't know what the purpose is for the guy taking the continual beating, other than being used as a sandbag? Good for a demo though...
    Ihate to keep harping on the same point ...your ideas of chisao and what it should "look" like are what my choice of clips is trying to show.....the clip I post look like striking in range....timing. angling to face....as article. Not feel each others arms.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by JamesC View Post
    Yeah, I felt bad for him the whole time, lol.
    How many times was he ko'd? Its fighting training with punches.he Is also given openings .
    ...

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    NW Arkansas
    Posts
    1,392
    Quote Originally Posted by k gledhill View Post
    How many times was he ko'd? Its fighting training with punches.he Is also given openings .
    ...
    That's not fight training, sorry. If it was fight training they would actually be hitting each other. Sensitivity training and perhaps trying to teach the less skilled trainee how to work under pressure, sure. It looks like a good drill for that.

    Also, I wasn't serious. That's why I put the "lol" on the end of my statement.
    It is better to have less thunder in the mouth and more lightning in the hand. - Apache Proverb

  11. #11
    You don't think its VT fighting training and they should be more sensitive
    ...why? In other clips they put on gloves and do exactly the same...hitting each other...but with hand protection..gloves. the distances are the same
    Angling..timing...facing...strategy......
    Last edited by k gledhill; 04-24-2011 at 11:55 AM.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    NW Arkansas
    Posts
    1,392
    Quote Originally Posted by k gledhill View Post
    You don't think its VT fighting training and they should be more sensitive
    ...why? In other clips they put on gloves and do exactly the same...hitting each other...but with hand protection..gloves. the distances are the same
    Angling..timing...facing...strategy......
    I'm not sure if you just have terrible reading comprehension or if you are purposefully ignoring my full posts.

    For the second time, I said I was kidding about that. Do I really need to repeat myself again in my next post?

    This is a drill. Nothing more. Fight training includes getting hit. If you think that you can learn how to fight without getting hit then you are fooling yourself. Nothing prepares your body for the shock of a fight like actually fighting.

    And i'm only referencing this clip. Not the others. I haven't seen the others.
    It is better to have less thunder in the mouth and more lightning in the hand. - Apache Proverb

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by JamesC View Post
    I'm not sure if you just have terrible reading comprehension or if you are purposefully ignoring my full posts.

    For the second time, I said I was kidding about that. Do I really need to repeat myself again in my next post?

    This is a drill. Nothing more. Fight training includes getting hit. If you think that you can learn how to fight without getting hit then you are fooling yourself. Nothing prepares your body for the shock of a fight like actually fighting.

    And i'm only referencing this clip. Not the others. I haven't seen the others.
    Check out some of the other clips....I'm not sure you understand my posts...

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    London
    Posts
    171
    Quote Originally Posted by k gledhill View Post
    Check out some of the other clips....I'm not sure you understand my posts...
    Don't you think its time you Put up or Shut Up Kevin Your Posts Your Boasts Etc Blahh Are rather Boring Now
    Show us a Clip of you and your Students in Action in the Good Ole WSL.PBWAY Or WSL.PB.KG.WAY Let us Observe if you Practice what you Preach.. You want to Ram it down our throats daily so i think in the Spirit of Sigung Wsl would agree on Prove It Mister !

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Jansingsang View Post
    Don't you think its time you Put up or Shut Up Kevin Your Posts Your Boasts Etc Blahh Are rather Boring Now
    Show us a Clip of you and your Students in Action in the Good Ole WSL.PBWAY Or WSL.PB.KG.WAY Let us Observe if you Practice what you Preach.. You want to Ram it down our throats daily so i think in the Spirit of Sigung Wsl would agree on Prove It Mister !
    Your making it an ego thing, im here to help fix the damage.... what are your thoughts on the article and clip...? when did I boast ?
    Last edited by k gledhill; 04-24-2011 at 02:16 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •