How to defeat a Wrestler

[clam61]

good point

look at most of the top mma guys ...they are primarily strikers

not saying they dont know how to grapple..but primarily striking. liddel, rashad, rampage, griffin, etc etc

Yes I do realize that. But a MMA guy doesn't focus on striking?

So a person who focuses on striking will be at advantage. Plus his strategy will be to remain in a dominant posistion. Which is standing. So he will use antigrappling techniques and quick escape techniques when he is taking down to get back to his feet. Plus on his back he can also strike. An if he does conditioning such as iron palm,Iron fist,Iron fingers. Then even his strikes on his back can be menacing.


If you take a kick boxer who spends most of his training time punching and kicking a heavy bag,punching a wall bag filled with steel shots and Hitting a makiwara board.

First year he strikes 80lb bag
Second year he strikes a 100lb bag
Third year he strikes 200lb bag
Foruth year he strikes a 300lb bag
and Fifth year he strikes a 400 lb bag
(An he can move the 400lb bag with each strike)

This guy;s punches from the ground are still going to be devasting. Imagine him opening up chain punchs or performing a Chin Na technique on a grappling arm trying to fight for the dominant posisition. Besides no matter how skilled you are in groundfighting you won't be able to defeat every untrained fighter.

For instance lets say you train your son at age three In BJJ by age ten lets say he manages to become a black belt. Do you think your ten or eleven year old son will be able to submit Tommy "Tiny" Lister Jr., Shaquil Oneal or Ving Rhymes. I picked these two because the average Black Belt BJJ guy who are not heavy weights would have hard time fighting these guys with Wrestling techniques. They would fair better with Muay Thai or Boxing. If they have the correct conditioning and power to adminster damage upon contact. These guys to best of my ability have no ground skills. But I bet you in a real fight they would demolished most if not all middle weight and Lightweight BJJ guys. Just my opinion. Not saying they couldn't be demolished.

An in a confrontation of multiple attackers your ground defense would be useless!




Even his strikes

[Edmund]

"If ...." x 1,000

You take a MMA guy who has some striking ability who has been studing MMA for five years. He can still be defeated by a WC guy who has only studied for two years. Especially if the WC guy lives,works,breathes and eats WC all day every day. All his pay checks go to supplies for his WC training an his hobbies is making his WC better an sparring guys from different arts including ground fighters. An you got a BJJ or MMA guy who does some amateurish bouts and trains 3 to 4 times a week. He can still be defeated by strickly WC guy who knows nothing about the ground. Especially if the WC guy perfected not going to ground by working and sparring with skilled ground fighters. But never learning the ground game.

Mate, you just put a stack of hypothetical mumbo jumbo together.
Why would you fantasize about all these weird scenarios? Guys spending their pay checks on WC vs 5 year MMA guy but only with amateur bouts and a thyroid problem...

Here's a not so hypothetical question:
If *YOU*, the WC guy, want to perfect not going to ground by working and sparring with skilled ground fighters, where's the logical place to look for those guys?

MAYBE if you didn't concern yourself with who can beat whom, you wouldn't have to worry about these stupid issues: Snake vs Tiger, Panda vs Golden Gloves Mountain Goat but it's only on a hill and the cops around the corner.

The problem is: You'd like to be able to SAY you can beat a grappler without ever actually trying to do it.

All these what-if's are demonstrating how many variables are involved, so boasting "Yip Map and Tom Wong can beat a grappler" is completely daft.

You've got WC guys on this thread with plenty of real experience cross-training in grappling arts regularly. How about *listen* to what they can actually do rather than hypothesizing about what you think might happen in a bar fight because you don't like their answers?

[Yoshiyahu]

Wow this thread has made me popular. I guess all you guys who love ground fighting wish to teach me a thing or too about how superior ground fighting is...

Kansuke. Lets say a Eagle Claw fighter or WC guy who takes time to perfect their art. First WC is filled with standing grappling techniques. Some call it anti grappling. But WC is filled with Take Downs and elements of Chin na. Plus some guys in WC learn Chin Na.


So any martial artist will have some grappling experience. An on the ground you have to advoid being place into a submissive posistion. But even if someone gets you there are still things you can do outside of ring...So there are some advantages to someone who is primarily a striker. For one I would not want to be on ground with someone who is bigger or stronger than I. Even If I have more ground fighting experience over them. Their strength will be able to over power me if I take it to ground. Where as fighting with WC if your train right you learn how to defeat a bigger opponent. I personally feel in order to be great ground fighter you should be able to bench press 250lbs. To me most fights in the street don't go to ground. So I feel ground fighting is a disadvantage especially with my surroundings. My Experiences not everyones...this are my opinions from what I have seen and experience. I live in place where most of the fights are people trying to punch you continously in the face. I have not taking any wrestling classes. But one time in High school I had a fight with a big kid who tried to grapple me to ground. Here is the story...They were a group of kids who would try to bully people. My click were MA's So we didn't go along with being bullying. Anyway I was walking by my self one day. Being a Little guy weighing about
145lbs. They sicked this guy weighing what look liked 220lbs if not 250lbs...Anyway he tried to head hunt my face. So I mostly Pak Sau his 20 to 30 punches. Timing his attack so I could trap his arms. I trapped him an started hitting him with the right hand on the outside. The other kid tried to run away But held him while striking him until he stop running. Then he tried to pick me up. Okay he did pick me up and was about to drop me on the ground. I did the only thing I could. I wrapped around like a phyton...Kinda of suspect but it stopped him from slaming me on hard floor. He set me down on the ground saying let go man let go. I had my arms wrapped around his neck. So when my back softly touch the ground I let go he ran backwards as I kipped up and hit him with a double palm strike in the chest like in the dummy form.

So a person who focuses on striking will be at advantage.

So the guy who focuses on one thing will be at an advantage over the guy who focuses on that and other things? How does that make sense?

Who says that is a dominant position?

The guy who has fewer, if any, grappling skills will be able to dictate what happens in the grappling range? That makes a lot of sense.

How the hell do you know that? If those guys know nothing about grappling they will be fish on the ground.

You also don't know that. In fact, I'd bet all those guys have exchanged punches with folks in their time but probably don't have much in the way of any grappling experience.

Unless you've got some weapons and some training with them, you are very likely out of luck in any case with multiple attackers.[/QUOTE]

Yes you are right many people at one time took a striking style. My first styles were aikido and judo and later kickboxing. Yea I agree you have train both on the ground and standing. An if you fight ground fighters on a regular basis than a striker will have advantage if he specialize in striking...as for size matter. With WC it doesn't? With Tai Chi it doesn't? With Bagua It doesn't?With Xing Yi size doesn't matter!!!

As for being jumped...If you are surrounded an get knocked down then yes..but if your jumped by six to eight guys an go to ground where I live no one is going down with you...They either are going to punch you with twelve to sixteen fist or stomp you with several timberland boots in summer,winter,spring and fall time. But this is what I see in streets. When people are jumped I never seen someone grapple them on ground to gain a dominant posistion or adminster a arm break.

Many MMA come from specialized Striking backgrounds: MT, Kyokushin, Kickboxing.
Silva and GSP have SOME striking skills

Dude...seriously...what are you talking about?

His punches will be as devastating as they can be IF he has trained them that way, standing punching ans ground punching are not and never have been the same thing.

Size matters LESS in grappling than it does in striking.
It still matters, a GREAT DEAL, anyone that has ever fought full contact with no weight limits knows this.

The chances of you going to the ground VS multilple attackers is HIGHER than VS just one.

In a fight...how would a typically grappler end the fight quickly?

I think the biggest thing that strikers need to understand is that a grappler is more comfortable in their world than they are in theirs.

While it is true there are no punches and kicks in grappling there is pushing, shoving, attempts at head control, fighting for hand and grip control, accidental forearms to the face, pokes in the eye and all sorts of other stuff that happens when you are trying to set up a take down. Hands, forearms and elbows flying around your head are not unusual.

Whereas the striker, once he is off his feet, is in uncharted territory and usually is very uncomfortable being there.

Ask any grappler the panic you feel as a noob when someone takes you down and establishes side control or mount on you, you feel like you are being crushed and you have no clue what to do. Most newbies immediately go into spaz mode and run out of gas very very quickly and a submission is never far behind.

Even if the striker isn't taken down cleanly he has no idea with how to do a scramble or even regain his feet. Grapplers practice standing back up in quick and efficient manner, how many strikers do that.

So, a reasonable scenario is a striker is caught in a takedown attempt, partially blocks it and keeps his separation as both players hit the floor. Before he can even finish standing up the grappler is slamming into him again with his next takedown attempt.

The bottom line is that it is easier for a grappler to bring you into his world that it is for you to keep the fight standing.

A great BJJ saying is "I am a shark, the ground is my ocean and most people can't even swim"

It was hypothetical proving that a child professional in BJJ wouldn't be able to defeat Shaq with BJJ!!!

How ever I dont think WC is best art...its the best art for me. But I think someone should spar grapplers to learn how to adapt his WC to defeating them. He needs to do this with all type of fighters. That will make you well rounded. But to me I see ground fighting as impractical in my world outside of sprawling with guys which I haven't done in years or actual mma competitions.

As for trying to get those who love Ground fighting to see it as defeatable by a pure striker. Although WC is not pure striking...But ne way. I am saying yes a BJJ fighter can defeat a WC guy. Even if the BJJ guy has no striking experience. I also believe a WC guy can defeat a grappler before being taking to the ground and possibly defeat him on ground by escaping.

Very few if any BJJ schools will award a black belt before the age of 18. I dont think even Rickson Gracie was an exception.

I could be argued that this is child abuse, but since none of the situations you obsess about are ever going to happen, we can let that go.



You can only disagree with statements, not questions. You can form opinions as to whether the questioner has a mental age greater than eight, is on drugs or both. In your case my answers would be "no" and "yes" respectively as far as that question is concerned.



Well, Tom's obviously going to figfht better than all those dead guys you mentioned so he's probably a better choice as WC poster boy.

It's hard to throw groundfighters (they are already on the ground).

You seem to be desperate to find someone who's going to agree with what you dearly hope to be true, viz. a Wing Chun guy will always win, that you're doing the right thing by not cross-training, etc.

("Come on. You guys can see I'm right, can't you? I'll just keep asking the same question 100 different ways, and eventually you'll all support my desires. Won't you? Please? Huh?")

Give it up. It's not going to happen. Luck, sutuation and individual attributes always have a major impact on these things.


Exactly.

[Yoshiyahu]

I don't do high kicks any more...
I have some stamina and some power. But as for uncondition skilled fighters. Well alot of Tai Chi guys are not conditioned but has alot skill!
I am 32 anerlich sorry for offending you and your art!

*Sigh*



THe bleeding obvious. Congrats.



Can you throw high powerful kicks?



The only unconiditioned skilled fighters are those who are skilled in and participate in internet "what if" matches. Do you have stamina or raw power?



Can you slam hard body kicks?



If you are getting beat on the inside, the other guy is better at fighting there than you are. YOU will be the one taken down. Better to get back to long range or better yet run away.



People have been choked out at the Kodokan for over 100 years without a single fatality. Punch KO's (major head trauma) are far more dangerous and result in death far more often. I can think of two instances in local news this year so far. You are compeltely clueless as far as this goes.



You may appear in court if you hit the guy as well. You don't put any violent criminal in a temporary submission hold or let him tap out. It's not a match, it's a crime.



Go to a BJJ school and try this. Please. Make sure your medical insurance is up to date. BTW, it's "upa" and its a classical grappling move.

Rear mount is superior to regular mount. Congrats for making one sensible assertion in a sea of misinformation.



Is this WC guy you? Can't be. You spend too much time posting cluelessly on KFO instead of training for one thing.



I guess that's one way of describing it

How old are you?

Well my view point is concerning Non cross training WC guys...Which i haven't met any on this forum...But I understand you guys love BJJ..more power to you. If you love the art have at it. I never found myself being able to use ground techniques in actual confortation. I mean I could take the guy to ground. But if I do it would be to run or stomp his face. Not get in a dominant posistion. I feel that is wasted energy and not effecient. But this is my opinion....


As for my stance on WC defeating BJJ...I am saying both arts are great. An both arts can defeat one another with out cross training. I just surprise that you guys think that average WC guy has to cross train in bjj to be able to defeat a ground guy...An a BJJ guy has to have previous striking experience to be able to defend against a WC or Muay Thai guy?


I believe if some one practices Tai Chi long enough he won't have to cross train in order to beat a Grappler,striker,external fighter,internal fighter...I am not saying that the Tai Chi guy can beat everyone it all depends on the skill level.

If you study WC You can still be beat one day by a highly skilled

Boxer
Karate Man
Ground Fighter
Tae Kwon Do guy...

If you study BJJ or Jiujitsu you can still be defeated by highly skilled

Pure Boxer
Karate Man
Wing Chun Guy
TKD guy
Another Grappler

An these fighters don't have to cross train to defeat you. They can simply defeat you because they are more skilled at fighting irregardless if you have an advantage with long range kicks,inside fighting,ground fighting,raw power and conditioning. It all depends on skill and time and chance.

Why Can't you guys see what I am saying...I am saying just because you cross train that doesn't really vaccinate you from being defeated by a WC guy who never cross trained. Can I Defeat you grapplers. I don't know. Would I try sure why not...Come to St.louis. My email address is kohen_hagadol@yahoo.com
I will try to accomodate you. If my statement makes you want to prove something by submitting me an showing how good your Ground fighting is have it. I would love the experience so I work on defeating your style by fighting with many of you!!!!

Mate, you just put a stack of hypothetical mumbo jumbo together.
Why would you fantasize about all these weird scenarios? Guys spending their pay checks on WC vs 5 year MMA guy but only with amateur bouts and a thyroid problem...

Here's a not so hypothetical question:
If *YOU*, the WC guy, want to perfect not going to ground by working and sparring with skilled ground fighters, where's the logical place to look for those guys?

MAYBE if you didn't concern yourself with who can beat whom, you wouldn't have to worry about these stupid issues: Snake vs Tiger, Panda vs Golden Gloves Mountain Goat but it's only on a hill and the cops around the corner.

The problem is: You'd like to be able to SAY you can beat a grappler without ever actually trying to do it.

All these what-if's are demonstrating how many variables are involved, so boasting "Yip Map and Tom Wong can beat a grappler" is completely daft.

You've got WC guys on this thread with plenty of real experience cross-training in grappling arts regularly. How about *listen* to what they can actually do rather than hypothesizing about what you think might happen in a bar fight because you don't like their answers?

[AdrianK]

Can I Defeat you grapplers. I don't know. Would I try sure why not...Come to St.louis.

I guess they don't have any BJJ, Judo, Sambo or Wrestling in St Louis, Missouri.

Go down to one of the places, ask to spar one of their guys. You don't need one of us to come down and show you how its done. You want knowledge? People are trying to tell you, go out and get it!

If you study WC You can still be beat one day by a highly skilled

Boxer
Karate Man
Ground Fighter
Tae Kwon Do guy...

If you study BJJ or Jiujitsu you can still be defeated by highly skilled

Pure Boxer
Karate Man
Wing Chun Guy
TKD guy
Another Grappler

And someone who has been studying every day of their life any style, can be defeated by someone who never learned anything.

The human body is the only true "style". Boxing, WC, BJJ, they just give you templates and concepts on how to use it. If theres one thing competition shows us, it is that when fighting someone who you don't know much(and on the street, anything) about, preparation is the key. Being prepared for what can happen.

[anerlich]

I am mr popular

Popular is probably the wrong word.

I am 32 anerlich sorry for offending you and your art!

You're didn't offendi me. You lack the capabilities. As for my art, you've demonstrated you know nothing about it. That doesn't bother me at all.

I guess all you guys who love ground fighting wish to teach me a thing or too about how superior ground fighting is...

Not really. Your choice to stay ignorant or to wise up doesn't concern me at all.

I never found myself being able to use ground techniques in actual confortation.

Why would this surprise anyone?

Come to St.louis.

With you and Terence as representatives of the local populace? Thanks but no thanks.

Why Can't you guys see what I am saying...

WE can. We've heard it all before (in those old threads you won't read) and are sick of hearing it.

If my statement makes you want to prove something

What's to prove? We've come to our own conclusions based on experience. If it's to prove whether our opinons regarding your ignorance is correct, the evidence is already here on this forum.

But one time in High school I had a fight with a big kid who tried to grapple me to ground. Here is the story...They were a group of kids who would try to bully people. My click were MA's So we didn't go along with being bullying. Anyway I was walking by my self one day. Being a Little guy weighing about
145lbs. They sicked this guy weighing what look liked 220lbs if not 250lbs...Anyway he tried to head hunt my face. So I mostly Pak Sau his 20 to 30 punches. Timing his attack so I could trap his arms. I trapped him an started hitting him with the right hand on the outside. The other kid tried to run away But held him while striking him until he stop running. Then he tried to pick me up. Okay he did pick me up and was about to drop me on the ground. I did the only thing I could. I wrapped around like a phyton...Kinda of suspect but it stopped him from slaming me on hard floor. He set me down on the ground saying let go man let go. I had my arms wrapped around his neck. So when my back softly touch the ground I let go he ran backwards as I kipped up and hit him with a double palm strike in the chest like in the dummy form.

I find this highly unlikely.

[Askari Hodari]

I think that you have two basic options in training for this scenario.

1) Train in a ground fighting art or at a MMA gym.
2) Train in a system of WC that has incorporated ground counters and defense. Randy Williams just came out with a DVD that discusses this. This is also discussed in vol. 2 of Close Range Combat WC. There are other videos out there too.

I think that the important thing here it to actually train. This means moving beyond the theoretical to the applied science.

I've done both of the above and its worked out well for me so far. Right now I'd really like to train Judo constituently for 24-36 months. In my experience many of the principles of WC can be found in arts like this, particularly trapping, controlling, etc. I say this because you may find that training in a ground fighting system augments your WC.

[Violent Designs]

good point

look at most of the top mma guys ...they are primarily strikers

not saying they dont know how to grapple..but primarily striking. liddel, rashad, rampage, griffin, etc etc

Big Nog = grappler
Frank Mir = grappler
Fedor = grappler
Brock Lesnar = grappler
Randy Couture = grappler
Jeff Monson = grappler
Renato Sobral = grappler
Ricardo Arona = grappler
Kenny Florian = grappler

[bennyvt]

who is tom Wong, who says he can beat any of the people you metioned. I never heard that YM or WSL fought grapplers, tell me more.

[Edmund]

Why Can't you guys see what I am saying...I am saying just because you cross train that doesn't really vaccinate you from being defeated by a WC guy who never cross trained. Can I Defeat you grapplers. I don't know. Would I try sure why not...Come to St.louis. My email address is kohen_hagadol@yahoo.com

I got zero emotional investment in seeing you lose or win. That's why I said quit worrying about who can beat who. I'm not going to St Louis. I'm in Australia. Plus you've basically come up with ball grabbing and biting as your best ideas. Who would visit a psycho ball-grabbing biter to spar with them? You've pretty much asked them to knock your teeth out and snap your arm as quick as they can.

Don't you get it? It doesn't matter who you can beat. Whether Shaq beats a 10 year old. Whether BJJ beats WC. Guys who train *both* grappling and WC don't give a ****. They do BOTH.

The fact that even you *don't know* who you can beat just shows that there's plenty of variables involved and you've also got no black and white answers. So making profound statements about Yip Man back alive and he's 40 years old and he's at a bar so he can bite the balls of a MMA guy with only a few amateur bouts...

It's just some weird fantasy match in your head (as you lie in bed doing SLT).

"I wanna beat a wrestler without learning or even interacting with any wrestlers. Can people who have some experience with wrestling or wrestlers tell me I'll be OK? Because I don't want to hear anything else. I'll practice the moves in the air while on my back. I've squeezed some balls while rolling around as a little kid...."

You know, I'm hilariously reminded of old posts of Terence, who actually used to be a "pure" WC guy who felt cross training is detrimental. His argument was it was biomechanically incompatible to do WC and grappling or MT or kickboxing or anything else. Now HE'S the one insisting that you cross-train to join his group and YOU'RE the one saying "No! I want to just do WC."

It's like the Circle of Life.

[Yoshiyahu]

How do you prepare on street against a fighter you don't know anything about or have no idea what training he has or doesn't have???

I guess they don't have any BJJ, Judo, Sambo or Wrestling in St Louis, Missouri.

Go down to one of the places, ask to spar one of their guys. You don't need one of us to come down and show you how its done. You want knowledge? People are trying to tell you, go out and get it!




And someone who has been studying every day of their life any style, can be defeated by someone who never learned anything.

The human body is the only true "style". Boxing, WC, BJJ, they just give you templates and concepts on how to use it. If theres one thing competition shows us, it is that when fighting someone who you don't know much(and on the street, anything) about, preparation is the key. Being prepared for what can happen.

anerlich you don't think very highly of me do you?

What city do you stay in? and What styles of MA's do you study?

Popular is probably the wrong word.



You're didn't offendi me. You lack the capabilities. As for my art, you've demonstrated you know nothing about it. That doesn't bother me at all.



Not really. Your choice to stay ignorant or to wise up doesn't concern me at all.



Why would this surprise anyone?



With you and Terence as representatives of the local populace? Thanks but no thanks.



WE can. We've heard it all before (in those old threads you won't read) and are sick of hearing it.



What's to prove? We've come to our own conclusions based on experience. If it's to prove whether our opinons regarding your ignorance is correct, the evidence is already here on this forum.



I find this highly unlikely.

Tom Wong info is found on "Is Wing Chun Useless"

who is tom Wong, who says he can beat any of the people you metioned. I never heard that YM or WSL fought grapplers, tell me more.

You made me laugh ha ha...When sprawling with friends...No you don't bite balls and nipples and other body parts...wow lmao....you had me bugging up...wow...that was pretty good actually. I can see you have a sense of humor or either your really pessimistic. Ha Ha... Well if you knock a wing chun guy teeth out even his gums can be used against the scrotums as a weapon. Its not teeth alone that hurts to scrotums but the pressure from the jaw too. Plus a good head butt works well too if you could pull it off.

No No you got me wrong. I am saying you don't have to cross train Ground fighting. But you need to spar ground fighters and study and adapt your WC to defeat them easily. Find out what works and what doesn't by noticing your weakness,openings and correcting them.

I have no black and white answers...I am not saying WC is the style that can beat all styles. What I am saying is pure WC is not bad. Nor is crosstraining deterimental. If your into sport fighting crosstraining may be pretty good. But also being a purist would be a breath of fresh air if you win many bouts. But a pure Boxer,Karate guy or Kung Fu guy will have rules against his art. Which would limit him. I would love to see the gloves come off for the boxers and muay thai fighters.

I got zero emotional investment in seeing you lose or win. That's why I said quit worrying about who can beat who. I'm not going to St Louis. I'm in Australia. Plus you've basically come up with ball grabbing and biting as your best ideas. Who would visit a psycho ball-grabbing biter to spar with them? You've pretty much asked them to knock your teeth out and snap your arm as quick as they can.

Don't you get it? It doesn't matter who you can beat. Whether Shaq beats a 10 year old. Whether BJJ beats WC. Guys who train *both* grappling and WC don't give a ****. They do BOTH.

The fact that even you *don't know* who you can beat just shows that there's plenty of variables involved and you've also got no black and white answers. So making profound statements about Yip Man back alive and he's 40 years old and he's at a bar so he can bite the balls of a MMA guy with only a few amateur bouts...

It's just some weird fantasy match in your head (as you lie in bed doing SLT).

"I wanna beat a wrestler without learning or even interacting with any wrestlers. Can people who have some experience with wrestling or wrestlers tell me I'll be OK? Because I don't want to hear anything else. I'll practice the moves in the air while on my back. I've squeezed some balls while rolling around as a little kid...."

You know, I'm hilariously reminded of old posts of Terence, who actually used to be a "pure" WC guy who felt cross training is detrimental. His argument was it was biomechanically incompatible to do WC and grappling or MT or kickboxing or anything else. Now HE'S the one insisting that you cross-train to join his group and YOU'RE the one saying "No! I want to just do WC."

It's like the Circle of Life.

If i was to try a grappling art it would be Chin Na. Maybe Judo for the throws. I took a little judo and aikido as a child. But I never really liked those type of styles. I have always been inlove with Kung Fu as a child. So Kung fu has always been my passion. Plus to me ground fighting is great for the ring...But WC is made for street fighting. To me I think a BJJ guy will win in ring but a WC guy will win in the streets. Many others feel the same way in the world.

But its nothing wrong with ground fighting if thats what you like. I perfer to practice WC. An if i was to cross train I would try Muay Thai like Terrence said and also maybe karate....But it would be for certain attributes...

Karate: Makiwara board training and bricks breaking.

Muay Thai: Shin conditioning.

Those are the two things I would enjoy...

But of course I often thought of cross training

Tiger: For developing Claws that Rip and Tear.
Eagle claw : For developing hard talons.
Snake: For developing hard finger strikes.
Traditional Baguazhang: Iron Palm and Iron body.


These styles interest me for various kungs that can use in street combat!

But again folks this is my opinion. I never said I am correct. I am no body just spurting out his opinions...Opinions are like butt holes everyone has one!

I think that you have two basic options in training for this scenario.

1) Train in a ground fighting art or at a MMA gym.
2) Train in a system of WC that has incorporated ground counters and defense. Randy Williams just came out with a DVD that discusses this. This is also discussed in vol. 2 of Close Range Combat WC. There are other videos out there too.

I think that the important thing here it to actually train. This means moving beyond the theoretical to the applied science.

I've done both of the above and its worked out well for me so far. Right now I'd really like to train Judo constituently for 24-36 months. In my experience many of the principles of WC can be found in arts like this, particularly trapping, controlling, etc. I say this because you may find that training in a ground fighting system augments your WC.

[Kansuke]

Kansuke. Lets say a Eagle Claw fighter or WC guy who takes time to perfect their art. First WC is filled with standing grappling techniques. Some call it anti grappling. But WC is filled with Take Downs and elements of Chin na. Plus some guys in WC learn Chin Na.

Seriously kid, how old are you?

[anerlich]

anerlich you don't think very highly of me do you?

I don't know you.

You have strong opinions and talk way WAY too much on subjects on which you lack knowledge. Those traits are not endearing.

What city do you stay in?

You can find this in my profile and on top of my posts. Sydney AUS.

and What styles of MA's do you study?

Wing Chun, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, MMA, plus I muck around with a few weapons. I studied Xingyi and Bagua about 25 years ago for about 5 years. Most of that is in my profile.

There is a link to my instructor's academy website in my .sig.

[AdrianK]

How do you prepare on street against a fighter you don't know anything about or have no idea what training he has or doesn't have???

You train in the most common ways you're going to have to defend yourself!

You get experience in how people generally punch(boxing is the most common way in the US), you get experience in how people generally kick, you get experience in how people generally throw and wrestle, how people generally use guns, how people generally use knives. And you get experience in how people fight in groups. And you improvise for the rest based on the concepts you've learned.

Did I miss anything? Cause its seriously not that ****in' hard! You don't need to train to fight killer robots for gods sake. How many unique situations do you REALLY think there are, in fighting???

[AdrianK]

Plus to me ground fighting is great for the ring...But WC is made for street fighting. To me I think a BJJ guy will win in ring but a WC guy will win in the streets. Many others feel the same way in the world.

Thats great that you feel that way. Hey, why don't you go talk to a few bouncers at some rowdy clubs and ask them what they train in?

Oh hey, even better, go challenge a BJJ guy to a street fight and see what happens.