Page 2 of 13 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 184

Thread: How to defeat a Wrestler

  1. #16
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Thunder Bay, Ontario
    Posts
    2,164
    How to defeat a wrestler?

    Well first, using your gan sau you would have to...... j/k


    Looking for a written explaination to a alive event would do you no good. If you want to learn how to deal with a wrestler, without having to take up the study wrestling itself, the only logical advise I can give you is to investigate their method, spar with them, get taken down by them, counter them and then repeat repeat repeat until you are familiar with their methods and confident with your response.

    I recently had a VT buddy have a experience with a wrestler, and he was able to successfully avoid his takedown attempts on few occasions. Of course, what one person does means little to another, but it does provide evidence that nothing is impossible, and that both methods can either win in the encounter or lose, it's up to each individual, not what someone tells you on a internet forum or in person.

    Remember, VT doesn't fight, you do, and it is what you do with your training that counts.

    James
    Last edited by sihing; 03-04-2009 at 03:18 PM.

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    South Jersey, US
    Posts
    813
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshiyahu View Post

    Anyway I heard biting as one technique. Anything else to accompany biting?
    Biting is a very very bad idea to do to a grappler who has taken you down. Look at the scenario.

    1. He has taken you down.
    2. He has achieved a dominant position.

    3. You bite him.

    4. A very very p1ssed off wrestler now sits on you chest and beats you without mercy. You lose many teeth and you promise God that you will never bite anyone ever again.

  3. #18
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Thunder Bay, Ontario
    Posts
    2,164
    Quote Originally Posted by m1k3 View Post
    Biting is a very very bad idea to do to a grappler who has taken you down. Look at the scenario.

    1. He has taken you down.
    2. He has achieved a dominant position.

    3. You bite him.

    4. A very very p1ssed off wrestler now sits on you chest and beats you without mercy. You lose many teeth and you promise God that you will never bite anyone ever again.
    Well if your talking about competition, of course you would not "bite" someone, lol. But if you are a VT guy, competiting in a wrestling tournament, then what chance do you have anyways?

    On the street (where he is more than likely going to beat you without mercy anyways, regardless if you bite him first or not), if someone has you mounted and you don't know what the hell is going on, I would bite if the opportunity arose, but not just bite as a fight finisher but to use it as a set up for something else. You have to do something right, it may not be the only choice, but the opportunity may be there. The problem with biting, is the fact that you don't know what you are biting into, the guy could be full of disease.

    Paul Vunak has some video on this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMhVLPwH47k, and there is a FMA art the exclusively concentrates on biting. There are something like 14 different ways to bite, and the muscles in the jaw have to be trained. They also train with meat attached to your partners body so you can actually bite someone in various spots to make it more realistic. I believe Vu advises that without any grappling experience, biting will more than likely not be a choice, and that one still has to have some skills to make it work. And if someone is in a more superior ground position than you, they also have the opportunity to bite you as well, the thing is if you aren't training it it may not come out.

    My loonies worth

    James

  4. #19
    "I mean what I am looking for is some possible solution to defeat a wrestler with out learning wrestling.

    So how do you take a wrestler out with out taking up BJJ or learning how to wrestle?"


    ***A SO-SO WRESTLER...garn sao and elbow strike.

    A good wrestler - baseball bat.

  5. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    Chuck was an excellent wrestler and a Purple belt in BJJ, I think.
    yeah he started out wrestling and then doing hawaiian kempo or something like that.

    but what im saying is that when u watch his fights, he rarely gets taken to the ground.

    he has good counters to takedown attempts. either a sprawl or he has good timing and hits them while coming in

  6. #21
    no not all wrestling guys can beat a WC guy. if you are going up against a person who is not a skilled fighter then running into him (maybe takin a couple shots along the way but this guy is not skilled or accurate so it is not a big deal), taking him down and doing a ground and pound is probably the best way to get the most bang for your buck in terms of the amount of time you train for the results you get.

    its like relying solely on the chung choi and agression in wing chun. against a guy in a bar who isnt trained in anything, even if he is tough, if you fly at him with a good chung choi you will overwhelm him.

    however if you are fighting someone skilled ...he will knee you in the face as you go for a double leg or do a flopping wing to your chung choi

    if you are fighting multiple opponents, then any pure grappling or wrestling art becomes as useless . as you are rolling on the ground trying to get a chokehold someone will kick you in the back of hte head or worse.

    also, if someone takes you down and you get him in your bjj guard, its not the same as in the UFC. while your trying to get a chokehold or joint lock the guy on top can do all sorts of things to your groin or other areas not legal in the UFC.


    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshiyahu View Post
    As WC fundamentalism or WC Purist how does one defeat a wrestler.

    In other words No matter if you advoid the take down or you are taking down to ground what are some purely Wing Chun tactics for getting off the ground or advoiding the take down.


    As for being a Newbie Ultimate this is my first week on this Forum. So Newbie I am...

    Anyway I heard biting as one technique. Anything else to accompany biting?


    I mean what I am looking for is some possible solution to defeat a wrestler with out learning wrestling.

    So how do you take a wrestler out with out taking up BJJ or learning how to wrestle?

    A couple of examples of what I mean:


    Please surely Wing Chun can defeat both striking and grappling styles with out having to to learn the various styles? Or is it Wing Chun is unable to defeat wrestlers. If thats the case why learn Wing Chun. If all Wrestling and grappling styles can defeat WC why not just learn ground fighting so you can beat WC fighters. By default any fighter a WC guy can defeat you will be able to defeat because Grappling and Ground Fighting is superior to pure Wing Chun.

    In other words Ground fighting is the ultimate art that can not be defeated unless you study ground fighting!
    Last edited by clam61; 03-04-2009 at 06:38 PM.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    St.Louis Missouri
    Posts
    2,175

    Good WC guy

    CAn good a WC guy defeat a good Wrestling guy with out wrestling or a baseball bat?


    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimatewingchun View Post
    "I mean what I am looking for is some possible solution to defeat a wrestler with out learning wrestling.

    So how do you take a wrestler out with out taking up BJJ or learning how to wrestle?"


    ***A SO-SO WRESTLER...garn sao and elbow strike.

    A good wrestler - baseball bat.

  8. #23
    A famous example is where Sum Nung (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sum_Nung) fought a wrestler Kwok Wan-Ping (http://www.cantonwingchun.com/about.asp)

    Kwok was a student of Shuai jiao (Chinese Wrestling), Chinese grappling, and Greco-Roman wrestling. In fact that was what he studied in college. Kwok's Sifu told him to challenge Sum Nung, who was gaining notoriety at the time for being a great fighter.

    Kwok thought, as most would, that all he needed to do is take Sum Nung down. Once that happened Sum's Wing Chun would be useless and could be defeated easily.

    Sum accepted the challenge and when they fought Sum Nung used some anti-grappling techniques and snapped Kwok's wrist. Kwok dropped to his knees and begged Sum Nung to be his student. Sum Nung accepted of course and Kwok Wan-Ping was one of his indoor students for many years.

    This is not a fantastic tale of any kind, but of course I know some on this board will say "its fantasy" or something to that effect but the point is simple.


    1. If you take a striker off his feet, he will be at a disadvantage

    2. If a wrestler is on his feet he will be at a disadvantage

    So you cant say a WC guy cannot defeat a wrestler or vice versa. There are always strenghts and weaknesses

  9. #24

    I could not resist!

    100% best answer!

    knock him out!

  10. #25
    Fantasy or not, we don't know of anyone who was there to see it, now do we? (Sum Nung)

    So how good was this wrestler-turned-wc fighter, do we know?

    Did he just charge in?

    We don't know anything for sure about this event, so let's not get carried away here. But what we do know is what we've seen over the last 16 years now in mma...hundreds of times.

    So here's the short answer to your question - which has been discussed ad infinitem on this forum in the past:

    Learn (and get good at) what is called a "sprawl" in wrestling. It's a great wrestler's defense against shoot takedowns to the legs.

    So you try to keep the fight standing with this; or at the very least, if he goes for the shoot and you both go down - YOU wind up on top of him.
    Last edited by Ultimatewingchun; 03-04-2009 at 08:33 PM.

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    yes
    Posts
    1,140
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimatewingchun View Post

    So here's the short answer to your question - which has been discussed ad infinitem on this forum in the past:

    Learn (and get good at) what is called a "sprawl" in wrestling. It's a great wrestler's defense against shoot takedowns to the legs.


    Yeah, but be aware it's not quite that easy.

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    5,714
    Yeah, but be aware it's not quite that easy.
    The only easy fights are the imaginary ones discussed on internet forums.

    Yeah, Yoshiyahu, you're a newbie. So pay your dues and read the old threads before demanding everyone answer the questions which are already answered (where they are in fact answerable) elsewhere.

    Maurice Smith is probably a better poster boy for striking purists in MMA than Chuck Lidell.

    Chuck is a great striker and seems to prefer that over wrestling ... but he's also a very good wrestler.

    Even Maurice Smith invested some time learning counters to grappling from grapplers.
    Last edited by anerlich; 03-04-2009 at 10:04 PM.
    "Once you reject experience, and begin looking for the mysterious, then you are caught!" - Krishnamurti
    "We are all one" - Genki Sudo
    "We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion" - Tool, Parabol/Parabola
    "Bro, you f***ed up a long time ago" - Kurt Osiander

    WC Academy BJJ/MMA Academy Surviving Violent Crime TCM Info
    Don't like my posts? Challenge me!

  13. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshiyahu View Post
    I mean what I am looking for is some possible solution to defeat a wrestler with out learning wrestling.

    So how do you take a wrestler out with out taking up BJJ or learning how to wrestle?
    I want to learn how to defeat a gunfighter without ever having to fire a gun. After that I believe I will take up defeating chess masters without learning chess.

    If I am to succeed I better avoid gun ranges and chess tournaments.

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    St.Louis Missouri
    Posts
    2,175

    defeat

    Well lets say you study Karate....


    Will you need to learn Tae Kwon Do to defeat a TKD man if you only study karate?

    Or would your karate be sufficent?


    Quote Originally Posted by Wayfaring View Post
    I want to learn how to defeat a gunfighter without ever having to fire a gun. After that I believe I will take up defeating chess masters without learning chess.

    If I am to succeed I better avoid gun ranges and chess tournaments.

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Northridge, CA
    Posts
    601
    Will you need to learn Tae Kwon Do to defeat a TKD man if you only study karate?
    No because the core set of techniques one learns and applies, are very similar.

    If you want to be good at fencing you learn fencing, not shooting.

    If you want to be good at fighting in the clinch and grappling range, you need to go outside of wing chun and learn from the styles that include that curriculum.

    You cannot be a WC Purist or Any Style-Purist, its counter-productive and honestly, completely ****ing stupid. If you care about the combat part - You learn everything that is effective in combat. Grappling is not part of WC's curriculum, thus you need to look elsewhere to fill that gap. It doesn't even have the most common anti-grappling defenses, thus you need to look elsewhere for that as well.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •