How to defeat a Wrestler

[uki]

so far biting has been the most viable option... now add some clawing to his eyes and face in attempts to rake it off, followed by attempts to rake any other exposed part of his body... stick your fingers into his armpits, grab his crotch, twist and pull... somewhere in all of that you are bound to get back on to your feet and kick the living poo out of him.

[Taryn P.]

so far biting has been the most viable option... now add some clawing to his eyes and face in attempts to rake it off, followed by attempts to rake any other exposed part of his body... stick your fingers into his armpits, grab his crotch, twist and pull... somewhere in all of that you are bound to get back on to your feet and kick the living poo out of him.

LOL.... now *there's* a delightfully TIGERY attitude!

[couch]

How can you use your Wing Chun to feet a ground figher with out going to ground or having taking any Ground fighting classes?

I will answer your question based on exactly what you asked.

You don't have to go to the ground. You also don't have to take any groundfighting classes. BUT!

You will have to find a few people with some grappling experience and square off in front of them. When this happens, you will quickly find out what works. IME, jamming with a Jum Sau on the neck, getting a piece of the eyes, mouth and ears WHILE either getting those hips back or dropping to a Kwai Sat (ie: lowering your base) seems to work for me. You can also think about dropping elbows on the back of the neck/head or on the opponent's back, but you can't rely on these techniques for a couple of reasons, IMO:

1. You can't pull them off 'realistically.' This doesn't mean they won't work. It just means that I like my training partners and I won't be dropping any elbows on their spine. Therefore, I know that going for vitals on the face works and the other things I mentioned, because you get an immediate (and safe) response.

2. You have to think like some of us WC people do: logically. If I hit someone in the face on their COM while they are trying to come around with a hook punch, their power won't be as strong. It still might connect, but their punch won't have the power it used to. While your base (read: hips/legs) are getting taken out from underneath you, everything you do with your hands will lose power (no ground power, worry starts to set in as you are getting dumped on your a$$, going into survival mode, etc).

Hope this helps. Find some nice people to hang out with and train with, talk to your Sifu, talk to your WC friends - if they can't help you, stretch your circle of influence out f@rther until you find what you're looking for. Warning: This forum is lame at best. I can count on one hand the people I trust here. LOL

Best.

[sanjuro_ronin]

No because the core set of techniques one learns and applies, are very similar.

If you want to be good at fencing you learn fencing, not shooting.

If you want to be good at fighting in the clinch and grappling range, you need to go outside of wing chun and learn from the styles that include that curriculum.

You cannot be a WC Purist or Any Style-Purist, its counter-productive and honestly, completely ****ing stupid. If you care about the combat part - You learn everything that is effective in combat. Grappling is not part of WC's curriculum, thus you need to look elsewhere to fill that gap. It doesn't even have the most common anti-grappling defenses, thus you need to look elsewhere for that as well.

Someone has crotch kicked the correct.

[sanjuro_ronin]

so far biting has been the most viable option... now add some clawing to his eyes and face in attempts to rake it off, followed by attempts to rake any other exposed part of his body... stick your fingers into his armpits, grab his crotch, twist and pull... somewhere in all of that you are bound to get back on to your feet and kick the living poo out of him.

Have you seen Paul Vunak's stuff?

[Tom Kagan]

Chango has the only correct answer to the question IMO. If your training (or lack of) fails you when you need it here it's not your lucky day.

[m1k3]

One thing to consider is that people who do combat sports are used to being hurt and continuing to fight.

While rolling in BJJ I have been poked in the eye several times, elbowed, knee'd to the crotch and had a finger dislocated. ( I will admit that I quit right then and there with the finger dislocation.)

A lot of times with the adrenalin rush you get from rolling you hardly even notice until the match is over. Thats why you do your submissions slowly and under control so that your partner has time to notice the hold and even then cranked elbows are common.

Wrestling does have its weaknesses. To often the head is too low and open for kicks and knees and if you know how to do a guillotine you have a good chance to catch a pure wrestler with one on a single or double.

But this requires that you train with wrestlers. Having someone in your class doing sloppy takedowns will give you a false sense of confidence. A good takedown is FAST.

[Ultimatewingchun]

Good post, m1k1...but so far, Adrian's post has been the best on this thread.

[t_niehoff]

If you want to be good at fighting in the clinch and grappling range, you need to go outside of wing chun and learn from the styles that include that curriculum.

You cannot be a WC Purist or Any Style-Purist, its counter-productive and honestly, completely ****ing stupid. If you care about the combat part - You learn everything that is effective in combat. Grappling is not part of WC's curriculum, thus you need to look elsewhere to fill that gap. It doesn't even have the most common anti-grappling defenses, thus you need to look elsewhere for that as well.

I disagree.

For me, WCK is mainly a stand-up grappling method with strikes, so it combines grappling and striking. As I practice it, the method of WCK is to control my opponent while striking him, and is sort of a dirty-clinch fighting method.

What is chi sao/luk sao but a representation of the clinch (sustained arm contact)?

If you control the opponent, you control his ability to take you down.

[uki]

LOL.... now *there's* a delightfully TIGERY attitude!

*meow*

Have you seen Paul Vunak's stuff?

nope... never heard of him.

[sanjuro_ronin]

*meow*
nope... never heard of him.

Youtube him Bro, especially his biting clips, you can see him tear through a slab of raw meat !!
JKD: rabid badger style !!

[clam61]

...If you want to be good at fighting in the clinch and grappling range, you need to go outside of wing chun and learn from the styles that include that curriculum.

i agree with adrian about WC having no ground grappling, but isnt standing close range a lot about what WC is about?

[sanjuro_ronin]

i agree with adrian about WC having no ground grappling, but isnt standing close range a lot about what WC is about?

Yes, and no.
IF the only clinch fighting there was, was the typical WC clinch fighting than it wouldn't matter.
But there is clinch fighting in other systems that is different than WC, so to expose yourself to them will allow you to learn how to defeat them.

[Vajramusti]

1. You don't fight wrestling in general- you deal with what is there.

2. No problem in trying out things against competent grapplers.

3. Wing chun is not a collection of techniques including sprawling.

4. Wing chun is about control- if you really are in control of your structure and motion and learn how to apply them against different people IMO you don't need to become a grappler or boxer.
Learn your game and play your game. Control and attack well.

Same old same old topics come up!

joy chaudhuri

[sanjuro_ronin]

1. You don't fight wrestling in general- you deal with what is there.

Always fight YOUR fight, not theirs, totally agree.

2. No problem in trying out things against competent grapplers.

Know your enemy...

3. Wing chun is not a collection of techniques including sprawling.

4. Wing chun is about control- if you really are in control of your structure and motion and learn how to apply them against different people IMO you don't need to become a grappler or boxer.
Learn your game and play your game. Control and attack well.

Absofreakinglutely !

Just because you may train with system A, b or C, to learn their in's and outs and to learn what works best against them, doesn't make you one of them.

Same old same old topics come up!

better than pointless drama, no?