How to defeat a Wrestler

[Kansuke]

well i guess you could use it as barter....if the cigar is expensive enough!

True that. A good cigar is a fine thing.

[t_niehoff]

I prefer Chi Blast range, and by Chi Blast I mean Small Thermonuclear hand held device.

You mean like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlF937SmcUE

[m1k3]

You mean like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlF937SmcUE

Its easy to figure out what kind of cigar they were smoking. I bet more than their shirts were red.

[WinterPalm]

One option for defeating a wrestler that someone like GSP in the UFC does is to just outwrestle him and get him on his back. That is probably the best strategy that is safest...you could also work your guard as many strict wrestlers can be easy to pull guard on without the training or knowledge of it.

[mjw]

If one person can take you to the ground, what is to keep multiple attacked from doing the same?

Nothing really I was saying how one wouldn't take down one of 2 or more attackers in my opinion.

[mjw]

One option for defeating a wrestler that someone like GSP in the UFC does is to just outwrestle him and get him on his back. That is probably the best strategy that is safest...you could also work your guard as many strict wrestlers can be easy to pull guard on without the training or knowledge of it.

This is true or you can from the guard move into the mount or sweep etc etc. To just sit in the guard isn't the best thing to do since you can still get your face smashed in.

As for being in the guard when I want to stand up I often take "guard passes" but turn them into guard escapes so to speak.
Like when one can grab the hand (so they can't sweep you as easily anyway) then standing up and breaking the guard I may just grab the pant legs and rather than pass the guard to a side control position I may just throw their legs to the side and kick them in the head as I back off. Yes they might just shoot for you legs but otherwise you are back in the world of stand up fighting for the time being anyway.

[m1k3]

Nothing really I was saying how one wouldn't take down one of 2 or more attackers in my opinion.

Remember there are many types of takedowns and not all of them require both people to go to the ground. Shuai jiao, judo, BJJ and wrestling all have a bunch of good throws that slams the other person to the ground while you stay on your feet.

Think about this, multiple people come after you. The first one grabs you, you do a nice hip throw (all of the above have this technique) and slam him into the concrete.

You give a quick kick to his head, step back and wait for the next one to get closer.

Or more realistically run like he11 while they all stand there looking at their friend going, "D4mn, that looks like it hurt".

Wrestling and grappling doesn't always mean that YOU go to the ground.

K?

[mjw]

^^^
Very true

[sanjuro_ronin]

Remember there are many types of takedowns and not all of them require both people to go to the ground. Shuai jiao, judo, BJJ and wrestling all have a bunch of good throws that slams the other person to the ground while you stay on your feet.

Think about this, multiple people come after you. The first one grabs you, you do a nice hip throw (all of the above have this technique) and slam him into the concrete.

You give a quick kick to his head, step back and wait for the next one to get closer.

Or more realistically run like he11 while they all stand there looking at their friend going, "D4mn, that looks like it hurt".

Wrestling and grappling doesn't always mean that YOU go to the ground.

K?

True story, when I was bouncing there was an altercation outside, since I was doing the door that night I told them to knock it off or take it down the street, one of the 3 guys that were picking on one guy tried to pushed me and I grabbed his arm and sweeped him with an Osoto Gari, his arm failed out and clocked one of his buddies in the face, and the other guy just stood there looking at me with his two friends on the floor.
LMAO!!

[Yoshiyahu]

I would have loved to see that....

True story, when I was bouncing there was an altercation outside, since I was doing the door that night I told them to knock it off or take it down the street, one of the 3 guys that were picking on one guy tried to pushed me and I grabbed his arm and sweeped him with an Osoto Gari, his arm failed out and clocked one of his buddies in the face, and the other guy just stood there looking at me with his two friends on the floor.
LMAO!!

[bennyvt]

A pure wrestler would only take you down and try to ground and pound. The only real submission is the neck crank or can opener.This can be practiced by getting someone to take you down and try to stop them from punching you. The one thing that isnt VT that is esential is the bridge. If you can bridge you can get out of nearly all the submissions.
But on a side note I have found some uses for the VT to substitute from the grappling and it seems to work really well.
Stop a high take down: instead of the underthook grab and raise them up I use a garn sao to control the front hand and attack the head with the other to control him (strike is more of a push as one punch wont work most times.
Instead of a sprawl (for a low take down): step back and use your hands to distance until they are low enough to reduce the gap and strike.
Sweep. As punch comes you lap sao it and bridge to the same side and sweep him, can also use the kicks to kick out the leg to get the same thing.
I have also found the ideas of using the elbow instead of fighting with the hands. funny I was trying to pry a guys hands off me when he had me belly down in a guilotine. Trying to fight his hands I couldnt get any space with my other hand. I stopped and went "wait up use my VT" and i shoot my hand through like a knife strike instead of pulling his wrists. It sheared it off really well.
But yeh I think you need the practice on the ground. its like a swimmer. he can do pratice with a cable bringing his arm around just like he swims but if he isnt face down it doesnt teach the same part of the brain. If the movement is changed by more then 7% it is filed in a seperate part so you need to get on the ground and have some one punch and submit you. Learning to bridge and sweep are really important.
But thats just what I have been trying

[Kansuke]

Instead of a sprawl (for a low take down): step back and use your hands to distance until they are low enough to reduce the gap and strike.

I don't know what arthritic octogenarian you are planning on wrestling, but that is not the most likely takedown defense in the world.

[Ultimatewingchun]

While I like the fact that your post demonstrates that you are at least trying to deal with these issues, Benny...

the fact is that this is pure nonsense:

"The one thing that isn't VT that is esential is the bridge. If you can bridge you can get out of nearly all the submissions."

***NOT that I'm endorsing the rest of your post, but this part really jumped out at me.

[bennyvt]

I train against a guy who is 25, has done shootfighting, wrestling, prowestling and other stuff. I was talking against just a takedown. Most wrestlers arent good enough with their hands to distract you so they can do a suprise shoot. If a guy can bridge the gap and take you down before you can step back then you are the slow one. Practice it.
The bridge saying was a quoet from carl gotch who was a catch-as-catch-can guy who taught the guy that started shootfighting. I agree the bridge is one of the most important because I found that the princibles of VT can work to get out of the hold but you are still in a bad postion waiting for the next submission, bridgeing and to lesser degree sweeps are important as most guy will not continue the submission if they are losing their position.
Well come on victor you seem to know so much tell me how you use your VT to beat a wrestler, have you tried against a good wrestler so you can say that it is nonsense or are you saying that I am lying and it hasnt worked for me.

[Ultimatewingchun]

"Well come on victor you seem to know so much tell me how you use your VT to beat a wrestler, have you tried against a good wrestler so you can say that it is nonsense or are you saying that I am lying and it hasnt worked for me. "


***I GUESS you haven't read much of my posts through the years, Benny. Been doing wing chun for 34 years now - but began taking a mixed martial art approach around 2001. I now mix wing chun with some boxing and catch as catch can (submission) wrestling.

So I take a "shotgun" approach as to how to deal with a wrestler/grappler. I might punch, kick, knee, elbow, clinch, wrestle, whatever - depending upon the situation.

I'm not saying you're lying, I'm saying that no matter how good one can bridge - this is not a way out of just about any submission, as you suggested. Bridging has it's limitations.