Making your WC deadly

[Shadow_warrior8]

Can you explain Dim Mak to me? Demonstrate it? Really? Saying "my Master can but it's a secret" ain't good enough. There's megabucks to be made in Vegas! Immoral? Selling out? Think of all the charities he could support and good he could do with that money!

My first instructor was EXTREMELY good at attacking nerve points with Chin-na on the human body. Head, torso, arms, legs.. Being his uke in demo's was agony. But this is not Dim Mak and he will tell you that.

Can you do it? Explain how it's done?

You confirmed my statement on the western world using references like Geogre Dillman to show dian hsieh doesnt exist or is bogus.

What is Dim Mak? 点穴
What does it mean? Touching points? Grabbing? Seizing? Striking?
What is Hsieh? How many can be used for MA? How many are known in TCM?
This is really too complicated to talk about in forums.

The bubishi has great info on this. Dr YANG, JWING-MING has some good info and has talked a great deal about hsieh Pressure points

If you have felt the pain in chin na nerve points, you should know its belongs the family of Hsieh striking, seizing, grabbing. Its attacking the hsieh, 穴, so how can one say its not 点穴, Dim Mak?

Not knowing the chinese word, brings fantasy ideas to people's mind, plus silly movies like bloodsport dont help.
Reading chinese through a english dictionary, it often doesnt make sense.

In asia, visiting a chinese sensei so he can do hsieh accupuncture for healing, enhancing flow of chi, or dit dat(hence the word Dit Dat Jow) for bruises, sprains is as normal as going to a western doctor. Its not so secretive as people think.

[Hendrik]

My own training progessed as follows:

External training
-Striking repeatedly into a container of sand or small rocks with the finger tips. Beginning slowly and gradually increasing the speed of the strikes as you improve.
-Striking a wooden board repeatedly with the fingers. Beginning very lightly with a focus on proper structure and alignment of the fingers, slowly increasing the strength of the strikes.
-Hammering nails about half way into a piece of wood and then trying to pull them out with the thumb, index finger, and middle finger. As you get stronger, pound the nails further into the wood, making it more difficult to get a grip.
-With all of these techniques, make sure to quickly treat any cuts and bruises you acquire, and do not try to increase the speed or strength too soon. These take time.

My internal training didn't have anything specific to finger strikes.
The only internal training I've done extensively is Eight Brocades, Marrow Washing, Tendon Exchanging, and Five Organ Breathing. Whether or not these had anything to do with actual conditioning and martial arts training, I can't say for sure, but it certainly can't hurt.
I have heard of several "Internal Techniques" that focus on improving finger strength and projection, but I have not been taught the specifics of these and can only speculate on their effectiveness.

Thanks fo the sharing.

looking at your description,
Just curious where do you from and do you practice WCK or other art or mix?

[anerlich]

You confirmed my statement

This is really too complicated to talk about in forums.

And you just confirmed MY statements! Too complicated my a$$.

In asia, visiting a chinese sensei so he can do hsieh accupuncture for healing, enhancing flow of chi, or dit dat(hence the word Dit Dat Jow) for bruises, sprains is as normal as going to a western doctor. Its not so secretive as people think.

No offence to anyone, but I've had several acupuncture treatments from Chinese-qualified acupuncturists for various ailments and found them a total waste of time and money. If you look at the links in my .sig, you'll find I have studied this stuff reasonably extensively. I have a diploma in acupressure, woo hoo.

So you can take your implications of my ignorance and stick em in your Dim Mak points.

I would call that Dim Mak; using pressure points (either grabbing or striking) to give yourself an advantage in a fight.

Chazmek, I appreciate your considered responses. I know that stuff works through pain and disruption to the nervous system. What I have problems with is people claiming that they "dsrupt the enemy's flow of chi" and such rubbish.

[couch]

No offence to anyone, but I've had several acupuncture treatments from Chinese-qualified acupuncturists for various ailments and found them a total waste of time and money. If you look at the links in my .sig, you'll find I have studied this stuff reasonably extensively.

That's really too bad. I can count on my hand how many people I haven't helped - and mostly due to them not completing a course of 10 weekly treatments.

If you're ever on the east coast of Canada - look me up. I'll take good care of you.

Best.

[anerlich]

Its practice,conditioning and training.

No kidding.

[anerlich]

Couch, I appreciate the offer.

I am a skeptic, not a fundamentalist unbeliever. Happy to be proved wrong, but it is taking a while.

[clam61]

No offence to anyone, but I've had several acupuncture treatments from Chinese-qualified acupuncturists for various ailments and found them a total waste of time and money. If you look at the links in my .sig, you'll find I have studied this stuff reasonably extensively. I have a diploma in acupressure, woo hoo.

i believe you when you say nothing happened.

there is no real regulation out there.

however i can tell you taht i have had accupressure and herbal treatments 10 times for various joint and muscle injuries (some chronic that i have had for months) and i have had TREMENDOUS success, i.e. they dissappeared.

this was after i went to my orthopedic surgeon, who is a good doctor in his own right, had x rays, and he couldnt tell me what was wrong with me.

[Katsu Jin Ken]

on a different note, has anyone ever made the arguement that WC is an internal MA?

I train with a guy that learned hsing i back in Cali (his sifu was mike patterson), we've discussed internal ma and hsing i and wc has alot of things in common, do you all think wc is internal? or strictly external?

[Hendrik]

on a different note, has anyone ever made the arguement that WC is an internal MA?

I train with a guy that learned hsing i back in Cali (his sifu was mike patterson), we've discussed internal ma and hsing i and wc has alot of things in common, do you all think wc is internal? or strictly external?

what is internal?

[Liddel]

The bubishi has great info on this. Dr YANG, JWING-MING has some good info and has talked a great deal about hsieh Pressure points

If you have felt the pain in chin na nerve points, you should know its belongs the family of Hsieh striking, seizing, grabbing. Its attacking the hsieh, 穴, so how can one say its not 点穴, Dim Mak?

Dr YANG, JWING-MING is the first one to point out that it is very diffucult to apply in a fight and the moment the opponent knows ones intentions its next to impossible...moreover he says that if one is to be sucessful applying Chin Na or seizing and controlling techniques its more likely going to happen in a random street encounter rather than a face to face fight in a ring.

Perhaps its my misunderstanding of Dim Mak - but i thought Dim Mak was to stop an opponent cold - kinda like Spoks neck touch in star trek knocking people out disabling a limb so they cant use it etc kiss the dragon anyone ....and Chi Na is the art of small medium and large circle seizing and controlling techniques similar to Aikido.

DREW

[Liddel]

What are some techinques that one can practice to make his WC more deadly against lets say an armed attacker when you have no weapon,can not run,can not talk your way out of a fight and know that your attacker plans on stabbing you to death.

Are there any deadly techniques you can practiced to be prepared for this one and hundred chance you have to fight for your life? Also what conditioning should one do to make their WC more lethal?

Having good technique and a solid foundation of power and movement/footwork is first and foremost...and IMO you need not have"deadly techs" just good old fashion damaging techs as you would in H2H.

Ive found through mixing with other styles that specifically train against weapons that the habbit of not using thumbs for grabbing in VT is contrary to how you would need to deal with an attacker with a knife...

That said - controlling the weapon on your outside after stepping inside is good - like stepping in chopping the swinging arm with a Guarn Sau then grabbing the arm to control followed by - stomping a knee to ground the opponent, then using footwork to circle around the opponent to lock off his ability to use the arm and weapon followed by a good head stomp is my prefered tech...which IMO is 'mostly' VT and while it can be deadly if you dont stop stomping... is enough to stop a unseasoned angry knife laymen LOL.

Anyway thats my take.

DREW

[anerlich]

however i can tell you taht i have had accupressure and herbal treatments 10 times for various joint and muscle injuries (some chronic that i have had for months) and i have had TREMENDOUS success, i.e. they dissappeared.

this was after i went to my orthopedic surgeon, who is a good doctor in his own right, had x rays, and he couldnt tell me what was wrong with me.

Lucky you.

I had back pain for fifteen years that I trained through. Like AGONY. Some days I needed a stick to walk. I had about five acupuncture treatments which only affected my bank balance. I went to multiple chiropractors who gave temporary relief. Two reasonably hard sessions I'd be hurting again.

THen I had six sessions of physiotherapy over a couple of months, and I've had maybe three reoccurrences of mild back pain in the last 18 very active years.

I've had other injuries (if you've only had them for months, they aren't really chronic IMO) get better with Advil, Voltaren, and professional sports massage.

And surgery. I had a knee arthroscopy to fix a meniscus tear in my knee a bit over a month ago. It was a great success, I'm back to hard KF, BJJ,MMA , running and kettlebells again already.

Acupuncture cannot fix structural problems (and in my case apparently, nothing else either).

I hope no one seriously contemplates going to the local acupressure guy/gal if they are diagnosed with AIDS or a brain tumour.

[anerlich]

Ive found through mixing with other styles that specifically train against weapons that the habbit of not using thumbs for grabbing in VT is contrary to how you would need to deal with an attacker with a knife...

Very true.

[Shadow_warrior8]

Dr YANG, JWING-MING is the first one to point out that it is very diffucult to apply in a fight and the moment the opponent knows ones intentions its next to impossible...moreover he says that if one is to be sucessful applying Chin Na or seizing and controlling techniques its more likely going to happen in a random street encounter rather than a face to face fight in a ring.

Perhaps its my misunderstanding of Dim Mak - but i thought Dim Mak was to stop an opponent cold - kinda like Spoks neck touch in star trek knocking people out disabling a limb so they cant use it etc kiss the dragon anyone ....and Chi Na is the art of small medium and large circle seizing and controlling techniques similar to Aikido.

DREW

Yes mate, thats where the language problem comes in. To learn chinese stuff, you gotta learn chinese. Its just all very logical. Same for any language in the world.
Watching bloodsport or Ashida Kim and saying yeah thats Dim Mak, is just playschool stuff.
Like my previous mail, its about the TCM understanding of Hsieh. All things come from there, healing and attacking- it is passed down that when you learn to strike these points, you better also know how to heal these points.

Did Dr Yang reallly say that? In Bujinkan training and Aikido, Chin Na/Seizing is one of the first techniques we use. I personally believe striking and seizing go hand in hand.

[Shadow_warrior8]

And you just confirmed MY statements! Too complicated my a$$.

No offence to anyone, but I've had several acupuncture treatments from Chinese-qualified acupuncturists for various ailments and found them a total waste of time and money. If you look at the links in my .sig, you'll find I have studied this stuff reasonably extensively. I have a diploma in acupressure, woo hoo.

So you can take your implications of my ignorance and stick em in your Dim Mak points.

Chazmek, I appreciate your considered responses. I know that stuff works through pain and disruption to the nervous system. What I have problems with is people claiming that they "dsrupt the enemy's flow of chi" and such rubbish.

Very mature response.

Disrupt energy flow of chi? Are we talking about Dian Hsieh or Accupuncture for treatment? Or the study of points in the ren du er mai? When you stick a needle into a Hsieh, what does it do? If its so easy to describe in forums, please do so.

It worked for me, but I cant say it works for all people. I had a badly torn ligament in the wrist, MRI confirmed it. But I didnt want to operate on it, because western medicine says, all operations have complications and risk, and we dont really know till we go in. I didnt want to risk because I already let them reconstructure my ankle ligament, and it was a bad decision.
So through TCM herbs, qigong, accupunture, and internal stretching, its now back to almost 100% .
TCM where you come only does accupucture?

Since you think description of Dian Hsieh is so simple, why dont you translate the chinese video, and explain what is happening- which point did he strike? which meridien line was it on? What was the physical response?
I dont have a diploma in accupuncture, but it should be easy for you.

What was this that you described then?
My first instructor was EXTREMELY good at attacking nerve points with Chin-na on the human body. Head, torso, arms, legs.. Being his uke in demo's was agony. But this is not Dim Mak and he will tell you that.

Here's my answer
What is Dim Mak? 点穴
What does it mean? Touching points? Grabbing? Seizing? Striking?