Bodhidharma's Influence and what Shaolin means to TCMA

[MightyB]

What role did Bodhidharma and Shaolin really have in the evolution of TCMA?

China existed for some 5000 years prior to Tamo's legendary visit. Chinese Martial Arts predate Tamo by thousands of years. So what was his influence?

My guess and opinion was that the temples were always a center for cultural exchange. Martial arts were being shared. I believe that Tamo introduced Yogic postures, the idea of Chi refinement and development, and the transmission of forms as the dominant training methodology.

[David Jamieson]

Ta Mo transmitted Ch'an to Hui ke. In so doing, he founded the zen school of buddhism and this was his number 1 contribution to shaolin as this practice is one of shaolin's 3 treasures.

zen serves the martial artist as well because practice of it allows for a quick change of state of mind and an avoidance of the adrenaline dump in a confrontational scenario.

he also brought in the idea that exercise is intrinsic to whole body and whole being training. any exercise. the idea that too much of any one thing does no good was made concrete with ta mo's introductions to life in the temple.

there are a lot of legends and such, but there are also the very practical aspects of what he brought to bear.

[Baqualin]

Ta Mo transmitted Ch'an to Hui ke. In so doing, he founded the zen school of buddhism and this was his number 1 contribution to shaolin as this practice is one of shaolin's 3 treasures.

zen serves the martial artist as well because practice of it allows for a quick change of state of mind and an avoidance of the adrenaline dump in a confrontational scenario.

he also brought in the idea that exercise is intrinsic to whole body and whole being training. any exercise. the idea that too much of any one thing does no good was made concrete with ta mo's introductions to life in the temple.

there are a lot of legends and such, but there are also the very practical aspects of what he brought to bear.

Hey David,
There's a lot of people out here today who doubt that Ta Mo even existed...interested in your take regarding this.
BQ

[David Jamieson]

Hey David,
There's a lot of people out here today who doubt that Ta Mo even existed...interested in your take regarding this.
BQ

It doesn't matter if he existed or didn't exist at this point. What remains, still remains!

Same as it doesn't matter if Jesus existed or not, which there are also a lot of people who think that. But nevertheless, you have a billion+ christians on teh planet.

The matter of his existence is completely aside from what is extant and attributed to him now. In both cases and more.

Hui ke DID exist and is documented. So if he was the actual founder of zen and ta mo was not, then so be it.

George Washington wouldn't be the first president of the USA if not for a general named Lafayette from France. But you don't hear too much about him outside of military circles really. Most americans have no idea about the role of the French in winning them their country and their independence from the British. George never cut down a cherry tree either and Christopher Columbus did not discover America.

there's a lot of wrong perceptions out there. But they don't take away from the truth, if anything, they serve as a launch point for discovering deeper truths about a subject if the person has the curiousity and open mind to look and to not be lazy in their thinking.

[Baqualin]

It doesn't matter if he existed or didn't exist at this point. What remains, still remains!

Same as it doesn't matter if Jesus existed or not, which there are also a lot of people who think that. But nevertheless, you have a billion+ christians on teh planet.

The matter of his existence is completely aside from what is extant and attributed to him now. In both cases and more.

Hui ke DID exist and is documented. So if he was the actual founder of zen and ta mo was not, then so be it.

George Washington wouldn't be the first president of the USA if not for a general named Lafayette from France. But you don't hear too much about him outside of military circles really. Most americans have no idea about the role of the French in winning them their country and their independence from the British. George never cut down a cherry tree either and Christopher Columbus did not discover America.

there's a lot of wrong perceptions out there. But they don't take away from the truth, if anything, they serve as a launch point for discovering deeper truths about a subject if the person has the curiousity and open mind to look and to not be lazy in their thinking.

The philosophy over riding what may or may not be the actual facts?

[David Jamieson]

The philosophy over riding what may or may not be the actual facts?

philosophies in general are built from the experiences of many and for some odd reason, they are attributed to singular persons. So, in a sense, yes. With other aspects, not so much.

Ta mo was a buddhist afterall and was part of the initial foray of mahayana buddhism into china which in and of itself is an interesting history.

Buddhism itself preceded ta mo by about 400 years though, or so it is thought, but he is one of the prevalent figures in Chinese buddhism because of the Ch'an.

[SanHeChuan]

A personal opionin that I'm just going to throw out there about the roll of shaolin.

I think shaolin served as a hiding place for alot of ousted military officers of considerable kung fu skill. Regime changes happened, and generals and other loyal officials faces likely execution. Shaolin would be the perfect place to shed your old identity, take up a Buddhist name and disappear. And it was these men who really contributed to the wealth of kung fu at Shaoiln.

Maybe

[David Jamieson]

A personal opionin that I'm just going to throw out there about the roll of shaolin.

I think shaolin served as a hiding place for alot of ousted military officers of considerable kung fu skill. Regime changes happened, and generals and other loyal officials faces likely execution. Shaolin would be the perfect place to shed your old identity, take up a Buddhist name and disappear. And it was these men who really contributed to the wealth of kung fu at Shaoiln.

Maybe

too shaw brothers. not likely although there is a case or two of harboring that occurred in buddhist temples.

[shaolinboxer]

I think it's more likely that Da Mo was attributed as the founding father to increase the prestige of shaolin. This is pretty typical...institutions pick a saint as a sacred, but not literal, founder. Then time marches on and the legend becomes as important as fact, sometimes replacing the facts themselves.

[bawang]

i think this poem describes acurately what shaolin was like
欺佛祖 insulting budha
喝观音 mocking goddess guan yin
戒刀禅杖冷森森 carrying vow sword and chan staff, sends menacing cold chill feeling
不看经卷花和尚 doesnt read scriiptures ,monk with tatoo all over his body
酒肉沙门鲁智深 meat eating wine drinking disciple luzhishen

this poem describe fictional character luzhishen from wutai mountain who was inspired by martial monks from wutai mountain, second most famous after shaolin

[David Jamieson]

I think it's more likely that Da Mo was attributed as the founding father to increase the prestige of shaolin. This is pretty typical...institutions pick a saint as a sacred, but not literal, founder. Then time marches on and the legend becomes as important as fact, sometimes replacing the facts themselves.

Shaolin was already founded and established as a buddhist monastery before TaMo showed up. Story goes that he was denied entrance for 9 years.

[SimonM]

Ta Mo transmitted Ch'an to Hui ke. In so doing, he founded the zen school of buddhism and this was his number 1 contribution to shaolin as this practice is one of shaolin's 3 treasures.

zen serves the martial artist as well because practice of it allows for a quick change of state of mind and an avoidance of the adrenaline dump in a confrontational scenario.

he also brought in the idea that exercise is intrinsic to whole body and whole being training. any exercise. the idea that too much of any one thing does no good was made concrete with ta mo's introductions to life in the temple.

there are a lot of legends and such, but there are also the very practical aspects of what he brought to bear.

I was going to post. But you just RNC'd the correct.

[SimonM]

i think this poem describes acurately what shaolin was like
欺佛祖 insulting budha
喝观音 mocking goddess guan yin
戒刀禅杖冷森森 carrying vow sword and chan staff, sends menacing cold chill feeling
不看经卷花和尚 doesnt read scriiptures ,monk with tatoo all over his body
酒肉沙门鲁智深 meat eating wine drinking disciple luzhishen

this poem describe fictional character luzhishen from wutai mountain who was inspired by martial monks from wutai mountain, second most famous after shaolin

Luzhishen is also the single most awesome fictional character from Chinese stories.

[golden arhat]

i think this poem describes acurately what shaolin was like
欺佛祖 insulting budha
喝观音 mocking goddess guan yin
戒刀禅杖冷森森 carrying vow sword and chan staff, sends menacing cold chill feeling
不看经卷花和尚 doesnt read scriiptures ,monk with tatoo all over his body
酒肉沙门鲁智深 meat eating wine drinking disciple luzhishen

this poem describe fictional character luzhishen from wutai mountain who was inspired by martial monks from wutai mountain, second most famous after shaolin

can you clairfy i dont understand

[tattooedmonk]

Luzhishen is also the single most awesome fictional character from Chinese stories.

Thanks!!!!!