Be more, do less
A funny little thing I have seen in Chinese martial art is you have the various Si-Hings in the school and then the Chinese Si-Hings which by some unspoken rule supersede the non-Chinese seniors. Sadly I have seen this at work in more than one school. One explanation I heard was "I'm more comfortable with Chinese people than foreigners."
Vomit....
To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders.
-Patanjali Samadhi
"Not engaging in ignorance is wisdom."
~ Bodhi
Never miss a good chance to shut up
攻裏有防 , 防裏有攻
That is true.Originally Posted by David Jamieson
But I take the idea of piety and respect very seriously. When my shifu ask me to do something, I will do it even if I think its boring or tedious.
If for example, my shifu is a bad fighter or doesn't teach me what I want, then I just leave the school, don't associate half-assed with people you cannot respect to begin with.
But those, real legit teachers of martial art, Eastern teachers in particular or should I say Chinese, usually demand a degree of respect and piety from the student, or better yet disciple.
Its just the nature of my culture and how I was raised and grew up. Sure I understand the nature of a more "free" or "formless" structure, no hierarchy, no seniority, etc, but as a Chinese I DO NOT WANT THAT. Not in my "formal" school anyway.
In my outside training group, we have no hierarchy. But it is not a formal thing.
And to be honest, I will treat older people with more respect and formality, and younger people with less formality, in most cases.
It is bias to think that the art of war is just for killing people. It is not to kill people, it is to kill evil. It is a strategem to give life to many people by killing the evil of one person.
- Yagyū Munenori
Registered User
100% correct.I was once in a kung fu cult.There were a bunch of high ranked students that talked a good game.But when they sparred they were horrible.The teacher kept the sparring class closed for this reason.
[QUOTE=Psycho Mantis;922367]Its based on respect, not fear. You need to read more sun tzu and less makiaveli.
And you need to fight more instead of reading about it.It would be cool if you actually EARNED that respect instead of walking around the school like some hotshot.Why did you delete your posts on the mantis forum?....I know you're one of Cottrell's brownnosing butt zombies.That's why you're hiding your identity like a scared little *****.
Rite.im saying he should have been good fighter some time in his life , rite
True,but in the school I used to attend,there was a sparring class.Many of the advanced students were exposed as frauds,they couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag.After about 4-5 classes,the teacher ended the class.He didn't want his pets to feel bad.But of course he never sparred in the class himself.He had to maintain his invincible "sifu" aura.That school is very cultish.Glad I'm no longer there.im wasnt talking about sifu in the first place man, i was saying if the students fight and spar more oftens, maybe there would be less of those dooshebaggas you were talking about in your post, man
prime rib rocks hard!
i am not a family guy. i love my family, but i hate spending time with them.
my martial arts family, took me a while to adjust to the discipline, but i like hanging out with my martial arts family more then my regular family.
Registered User
You still did not answer me.Why did you delete your posts on the mantis forum?WHY are you hiding you identity?You joined this forum 4 years ago and you did not post one time until a bashed your leader.This thread does have something to do with him and mantis.He uses this hierarchy structure to use and control students.I put my location and email address on my username so people like you that want me to get over it,tired of my incessant *****ing can do something about it.Neither you or cottrell has stepped up to the plate.And neither of you will.I think that makes you the Pu$$y.
攻裏有防 , 防裏有攻
Woooo two internet warriors going at it.
*popcorn*
It is bias to think that the art of war is just for killing people. It is not to kill people, it is to kill evil. It is a strategem to give life to many people by killing the evil of one person.
- Yagyū Munenori
Bad the Fukc Ass
great post
For whoso comes amongst many shall one day find that no one man is by so far the mightiest of all.
Itinerant practitioner
guys, please.
we don't give a shit about your quarrel.
Kung Fu is good for you.
Registered User
I really like the example given of a child and parent.
Most of the people are all about I can kick his butt so screw'm
1) If somehow the instructor prefered his Chinese students over a non-Chinese one could be b/c the non-Chinese wasn't that great but the non-Chinese student made it into a racial issue (so obvious) ... or the instructor is a little racist. (shocking huh?)
2) If your Si-Hing is walking around like he's king but he's got no skill then...he's just a big fat IDIOT! Nothing to do with hierarchies in kung fu school.
Or maybe si-hing can fight a little sometime and just want to help out by giving advice BUT you're a little too proud of yourself to like it so you laugh your butt off when he gets his handed to him - you seem like a type better off on your own since you can't seem to get over it.
Hierarchies is just the way they are...like a family someone's got to come first...back then they almost lived together like a family. It wasn't about who can kick's who's ass...or who want's recognition (I'm not saying it didn't happen I'm just saying that's not the point of the structure).
If you got the skills then that's it.
It doesn't matter what's your name or the colour around your waist.
My intructor has a Chinese saying that I'm not sure I can translate properly but I'll give it a go "there's not difference in who came before or after...it's who achieve mastery that's important"
Last edited by iron_silk; 03-13-2009 at 09:37 AM.
Bad the Fukc Ass
there is absolutely nothing wrong with having respect for someone higher up on the ladder than yourself, even if you could beat them 10 out of 10 times.
in a healthy environment, this is just respect for the natural order of the way things have developed. as a teacher ages and his students do as well, eventually the pupil will be able to defeat the master. thats the goal. at the point that you can defeat your master do you lose your respect? or do you gain a whole new level for what this person has given you.
the same goes for your elder brothers, sisters, uncles and aunts. in a healthy environment.
your brothers are there to help you grow and mature and develop as a martial artists, and you are there to supply that same support to your younger siblings.
the only time there is a problem with this order is when the environment itself is in disorder and there is no harmony amongst the family.
For whoso comes amongst many shall one day find that no one man is by so far the mightiest of all.
Bad the Fukc Ass
well said.
For whoso comes amongst many shall one day find that no one man is by so far the mightiest of all.
Registered User
Very true.However the idol(usually the sifu)uses the heirarchy structure to accomplish his goal.My former teacher did not guide me in finding my own answers.Thats because he had all the answers.If I asked about another art he either knew the art or it sucked.He kept me from growing as a martial artist.But in the last couple years and getting away from that cult,I have grown a lot.You are correct about the teacher serving the students.On the outside the heirarchy structure seems good,but once you join,it can turn into a cult.
GKK 4 LIFE
i think i read somewhere about too many folds making a sword weaker maybe that can fit into your analogy
i'd also like to point out that your average ak is much more simple trhan a sword and does the job a whole lot better
there are only masters where there are slaves
www.myspace.com/chenzhenfromjingwu
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