Is Wing Chun Useless?

[lkfmdc]

Its weird I posted my respons on your statments twice so far....an both times it did not get posted for some reason!!!

This Guy is trained in Ground Fighting

About as f-in vague and unspecific as you can get. What kind of "ground fighting"? "jiu jitus"? Classical Japanese stand up or BJJ? Who did he study with? Does he have any rank?

I studied Tai Chi for a week once, does that make me a tai chi master?

Yuen Kay-San next set Sum Nung up to face a well-known local wrestler

more vague, non specific crap

Master Wong (a Wudong Chi Kung master 8th Level Shaolin Chi-Gung, 11th Level Taoist Chi-Gung), used Chi to immobilize several wrestlers at once.

of course! he used CHI to immobilize SEVERAL wrestlers AT ONCE

dear lord, are these people real?

[AdrianK]

Master Wong (a Wudong Chi Kung master 8th Level Shaolin Chi-Gung, 11th Level Taoist Chi-Gung), used Chi to immobilize several wrestlers at once.

Using "Chi" to immobilize people is a mental trick performed by plenty of cultists and magicians too.

Its never, ever, been shown to be anything more than that.

And James Randi will give you $100,000 if you can prove otherwise.

[lkfmdc]

These guys are pretty smart to not list the addresses of their schools on that web site, othewise someone could show up one day to test out these claims

[Yoshiyahu]

These guys are pretty smart to not list the addresses of their schools on that web site, othewise someone could show up one day to test out these claims

Using "Chi" to immobilize people is a mental trick performed by plenty of cultists and magicians too.

Its never, ever, been shown to be anything more than that.

And James Randi will give you $100,000 if you can prove otherwise.

About as f-in vague and unspecific as you can get. What kind of "ground fighting"? "jiu jitus"? Classical Japanese stand up or BJJ? Who did he study with? Does he have any rank?

I studied Tai Chi for a week once, does that make me a tai chi master?




more vague, non specific crap



of course! he used CHI to immobilize SEVERAL wrestlers AT ONCE

dear lord, are these people real?

Did you guys click the links an read the entire articles? lkfmdc He studied Hapkido and Jujitsu:

I have studied martial arts for almost 30 years under many famous grandmasters from, Karate, Hapkido, Jujitsu, JKD and Wing Chun.

Did you read the post...Why did you say this?

What kind of "ground fighting"? "jiu jitus"? Classical Japanese stand up or BJJ?

[sanjuro_ronin]

First off, no one here speaks for Tom Wong, so stop taking about him.
Yoshi made the comment that Tom had defeated BJJ Black Belts, he was asked which ones.
No answer.
Tom Wong never said he defeated ANY GRAPPLER, this is about Yoshi and what he said.
Second, Jodan ( 10 Dan BB) in Shotokan is very rare and is given as an honorary title to those that have been in SHotokan for decades and have done great things in the name of Shotokan, just like the Jodan is given to anyone else in any Karate organization.
Pretty much anything over 5th Dan is "political" and done in terms of recognition and that is typical in all "belt" systems.
In other words, you don't TEST for a 6th dan or an 8th Dan, they are awarded to you by the commitee the heads up the organization.

[m1k3]

Did you read the post...Why did you say this?

Quote:
What kind of "ground fighting"? "jiu jitus"? Classical Japanese stand up or BJJ?

There is a BIG difference between Japanese Ju Jitsu and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, they are completely different styles. Actually there is a multitude of Japanese Ju Jitsu styles and they can be very different from each other.

This is the reason you get a lot of grief. To use a common Bullshido response:

Read more, post less.

[sanjuro_ronin]

There is a BIG difference between Japanese Ju Jitsu and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, they are completely different styles. Actually there is a multitude of Japanese Ju Jitsu styles and they can be very different from each other.

This is the reason you get a lot of grief. To use a common Bullshido response:

Read more, post less.

The vast majority of JJJ systems do NOT address ground work, Ne waza, like BJJ does, the exceptions being Kosen Judo ( its their specialty) and Kodokan Judo.
Most will adress ground work in terms of Pinning and control over submission, though almost all of them have the same basic subs - Arm bars, chokes, and such.

[TenTigers]

hmmm, well if judo was developed from jiu-jutsu, then there must be at least a few jiujutsu ryus that contain the ne-waza, as well as the throws, jointlocks and strikes? Now, that would be the cool.

[sanjuro_ronin]

hmmm, well if judo was developed from jiu-jutsu, then there must be at least a few jiujutsu ryus that contain the ne-waza, as well as the throws, jointlocks and strikes? Now, that would be the cool.

Judo has all those, as you know, the majority of people focus only on the competitive side.
Combat Judo is a very complete and well rounded MA, think Combat Shuai Jiao.

The vast majority of Koryu ( old school) jujutsu ryu didn't contain the TYPE of sylabus that the Kodokan adapted from Fusen-ryu, which was a Ryu that specialized in NeWaza.
Kosen Judo is simply the "pre-war" or "pre-olympic" Judo and as such focuses much more on ground work than on throws, the major emphasise of Olympic Judo.
The Takenouguchi Ryu has some Newaza, most of it with their weapon of choice the tanto ( knife).
Fact is, the majority of JJJ systems tend to view ground work from the battlefield perspective and as such it was "stab the Mofu and get up".

[SimonM]

mongolian wrestling,ground mantis and shaishou (wrong spelling please forgive)

I've never heard of "ground mantis" or of shaishou. If you mean shuai jiao that is a wrestling form I am familliar with. And like most Chinese wrestling arts it doesn't contain much in the way of a ground game because the match is lost when somebody takes a knee.

I know for a fact this is the case with Mongolian Wrestling - which I have more than a passing familiarity in traditional Mongolian Wrestling the loser is the first person to touch the ground with anything other than his feet.

Another note: Mongolian Wrestling is still quite an awesome form of wrestling which I enjoy both watching and participating in. It's a rough and tumble form that lacks the ghey elements of... say... turkish wrestling.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I've never heard of "ground mantis" or of shaishou. If you mean shuai jiao that is a wrestling form I am familliar with. And like most Chinese wrestling arts it doesn't contain much in the way of a ground game because the match is lost when somebody takes a knee.

I know for a fact this is the case with Mongolian Wrestling - which I have more than a passing familiarity.

Maybe he meant Ethiopian Sumo or Somali Judo.
Now those are badass mofu arts !!

[SimonM]

Or perhaps he was simply mistaken.

Or maybe somebody blew smoke up his ear and he believed it.

Or maybe these are simply obscure arts I've never heard of.

All are roughly equal probability at the moment.

So video evidence would be in order.

Oh... and for the record... MONGOLIAN Wrestling is about as validly a CMA as a martial art from Vietnam... since there are mongolians within China but they are a distinct ethnicity with a distinct, non-chinese culture who happen to overlap the border between China and a neighbouring state.

[lkfmdc]

lkfmdc He studied Hapkido and Jujitsu:

well, let's see

1) "jujitsu" is so vague it could mean standing classical Japanese jiu jitsu with no ground grappling at all ....

2) seeing as I have a 2nd dan in Hapkido from Pong Ki Kim (student of Yong Shul Choi), I can say without any worries that Hapkido is NOT A GROUND FIGHTING ART

[SimonM]

And James Randi will give you $100,000 if you can prove otherwise.

$1,000,000 actually.

But the challenge is kind of being wound up.

I think Randi decided 30 years was long enough to wait for somebody legitimate to step up.

[Shaolinlueb]

$1,000,000 actually.

But the challenge is kind of being wound up.

I think Randi decided 30 years was long enough to wait for somebody legitimate to step up.

whats the challenge?