Wing Chun and The root

[Hendrik]

fist law not permanent
you can do whatever you want

Sure, keep dreaming and not wake up.

[bawang]

hy

i was quoting ming dynasty shaolin manual word for word
kuen fat buk ding

if a 6 feet tall 180 pound guy want to beat up people, using an obscure close range boat kung fu ,desined for short 120 pound southerners, that was never focused on empty hand fighting in the first place, that never proved its efectivenes on the lei tai, he will be never be good to the day he is old man

[t_niehoff]

That is the biggest disaster.

as the chinese said,

make a Drawing of ghost is ease but make a drawing of human is difficult.

Why?

because

no one has seen ghost, so one can draw anything and call it ghost.

as for Human, everyone know how a human looks like, so people know if one is not drawing human.

It's not difficult to see whether someone is doing WCK or not. Doing WCK is fighting with the WCK tools. We know what those tools are from the forms, from the drills, from the exercises. In the same way it is easy to see if someone is doing boxing or not.

WCK has become ghost for most, so, sure it is easy to draw as one likes it. One can draw it in a Hung gar way, a CLF way, a Taiji Way, a BJJ Way....
but is it human or it is ghost?

bottom line for WCK, if one cant evoke the Inch Jin or the fast accelerate Jin, there is no indepth WCK exist anymore.

No, the level of one's WCK is the level of their ability to fight using the WCK tools, just as the level of one's boxing is the level of their ability to fight using boxing's tools.

[Yoshiyahu]

What Style of Kung Fu do you practice?

Do you possess inch Jin?

[m1k3]

What Style of Kung Fu do you practice?

Do you possess inch Jin?

I practice Wing Chun and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. Due to financial reasons and the fact I have to admit I am just getting too old to be rolling around the mats with a bunch of 20 somethings, I am dropping the BJJ after 2 and a half years.

I did about 6 months of wing chun at a school, but then it closed however I continue to work it on my own.

Since I am dropping the BJJ I will be in the market for a new school. At 55 years old I want to find something that isn't quite as "vigorous" as the BJJ but still has some sort of sparring.

As for inch Jin, mine is more like 7 inches.

How about you?

[Hendrik]

It's not difficult to see whether someone is doing WCK or not. Doing WCK is fighting with the WCK tools. We know what those tools are from the forms, from the drills, from the exercises. In the same way it is easy to see if someone is doing boxing or not.



No, the level of one's WCK is the level of their ability to fight using the WCK tools, just as the level of one's boxing is the level of their ability to fight using boxing's tools.

ok, Fighting with the WCK tools.

So, let start with the most basic and fundamental before proceed further.



Please share your answer on the basic of the tool.



what is the criterion or the attainment for you to know your YJKYM is proper? or What kind of result you need to attain in the beginer level?


what kind of result or attainment for you to know your SLT/SNT is practice properly in the beginer level?

[Hendrik]

hy

i was quoting ming dynasty shaolin manual word for word
kuen fat buk ding

if a 6 feet tall 180 pound guy want to beat up people, using an obscure close range boat kung fu ,desined for short 120 pound southerners, that was never focused on empty hand fighting in the first place, that never proved its efectivenes on the lei tai, he will be never be good to the day he is old man

hahaha,

I am just talking about "cooking" instruction so that one knows how to cook the basic food. and how to know if the food is cooked or is it raw or is it half cook...

[m1k3]

hahaha,

I am just talking about "cooking" instruction so that one knows how to cook the basic food. and how to know if the food is cooked or is it raw or is it half cook...

And that is done by crossing hands and I don't mean chi sao.

No matter how well you know the principles, no matter how deep your knowledge of ancient traditions and techniques, if you keep eating punches when sparring your food is raw.

If you can't fight with your wing chun what good is it?

[t_niehoff]

ok, Fighting with the WCK tools.

So, let start with the most basic and fundamental before proceed further.

Please share your answer on the basic of the tool.

what is the criterion or the attainment for you to know your YJKYM is proper? or What kind of result you need to attain in the beginer level?

what kind of result or attainment for you to know your SLT/SNT is practice properly in the beginer level?

With any fighting skill, you can only measure it by and through your ability to use it in fighting. How good is your jab, how good is your hip throw, how good is your elbow escape, how good is your YJKYM? It's how well YOU can use them in fighting. That's the criterion.

The SLT/SNT form/set doesn't develop anything. It is practicing fighting movements in the air. You don't learn to ride a bike by practicing bike riding movements in the air; you learn by getting on the bike and riding it.

[Hendrik]

No matter how well you know the principles, no matter how deep your knowledge of ancient traditions and techniques, if you keep eating punches when sparring your food is raw.

You are absolutely correct. I agree with you 200%.

However, what I am brought up is no what you address above.


Thus, go back to the 2 questions and answers them in details. those are baby steps, or how to turn on the cooker.

If you can't fight with your wing chun what good is it?

I agree with you 10000%.

[Hendrik]

With any fighting skill, you can only measure it by and through your ability to use it in fighting. How good is your jab, how good is your hip throw, how good is your elbow escape, how good is your YJKYM? It's how well YOU can use them in fighting. That's the criterion.

great

however that still doesnt say what is the purpose of YJKYM and how "cook" is the YJKYM needed before it can be eat or use in fighting.

The SLT/SNT form/set doesn't develop anything.


It is practicing fighting movements in the air. You don't learn to ride a bike by practicing bike riding movements in the air; you learn by getting on the bike and riding it

ARe you doing WCK? if not then your "The SLT/SNT form/set doesn't develop anything. " if yes, then it has to develop something.

So what is that something one develop?


if you do WCK and practice SLT/SNT and willing to get by on it doesnt doing anything. how critical thinking do you have?

it totally doesnt make any sense to invest on something doing nothing, or it is a waste of life.


It is like saying practicing rolling in the tatami or mat doesnt do anything for Judo.

[sanjuro_ronin]

It is like saying practicing rolling in the tatami or mat doesnt do anything for Judo.

By rolling do you mean Randori/sparring or rolling around on the mats?
We don't actually "roll" on the mats...

[t_niehoff]

great

however that still doesnt say what is the purpose of YJKYM and how "cook" is the YJKYM needed before it can be eat or use in fighting.

You look at WCK from the preconceived notion that there is a "right" or "proper" way to do things. I don't. I have my way. But my way may be different than someone else's. What matters is how well we can use it however we use it. If someone can use their YJKYM differently than me but to great effect, how can I say they are wrong?

And you can't develop a fighting skill "before" fighting -- that's like trying to develop bike riding skills before riding the bike.

ARe you doing WCK? if not then your "The SLT/SNT form/set doesn't develop anything. " if yes, then it has to develop something.

So what is that something one develop?

You're not DOING WCK unless you are fighting. Practicing a form isn't DOING WCK -- it is practicing the movements in the air. Doing a boxing set isn't boxing.

You don't learn to box through forms.

if you do WCK and practice SLT/SNT and willing to get by on it doesnt doing anything. how critical thinking do you have?

it totally doesnt make any sense to invest on something doing nothing, or it is a waste of life.

It is like saying practicing rolling in the tatami or mat doesnt do anything for Judo.

Forms/sets don't develop anything. They are a really poor way of training. Unfortunately, the ancient chinese had very little idea of how to teach or how people best learned. This is why chinese pedgogy is universally recognized as substandard and why they have begun adopting modern teaching/learning methods. Just because some ancient people taught in certain ways doesn't mean those ways were any good.

Practicing forms is not the same thing as rolling or randori -- rolling and randori are forms of sparring. As I said, you don't learn to ride a bike by practicing bike riding movements in the air, but by riding the bike. Rolling and randori are riding the bike.

[Hendrik]

By rolling do you mean Randori/sparring or rolling around on the mats?
We don't actually "roll" on the mats...

I am not talking about Randori but something even basic

do the beginer still do front fall, side fall to prepare for ipon seoi nage.....ect and roll to prepare for tomonage these days?

[m1k3]

You look at WCK from the preconceived notion that there is a "right" or "proper" way to do things. I don't. I have my way. But my way may be different than someone else's. What matters is how well we can use it however we use it. If someone can use their YJKYM differently than me but to great effect, how can I say they are wrong?

QFT.

Hendrick, I do not believe we will ever see eye to eye on this.

Return to your ancient scrolls, the dead are whispering to you from across the ages.