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Thread: Wing Chun and The root

  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    You are good in arguement. but arguement is not WCK.

    by evidents on your post, you dont know indepth YJKYM that is forsure.
    MY WCK isn't too bad either.

    That you talk about "know indepth YJKYM" tells me you don't see it for what it is (a physical skill) but as some academic subject that is knowledge-based (which it isn't). It isn't "indepth intellectual knowledge" that keeps the bike from falling over or keeps you from falling off your skis or allows you to control an opponent while striking him -- physical skills come from practicing the task at hand and can't be reduced to intellectual knowledge. You "get it" (being able to ride a bike, being able to ski, having body structure) when you "get it", and you "get it" through practicing the task.

    What is the "process" for riding a bike? What is the "process" for being able to ski? Your body learns how to do these things by doing them. It is an unconscious process. As Helio said, "Learning jiujitsu is a subconscious process." It's the same with WCK.
    Last edited by t_niehoff; 04-09-2009 at 12:23 PM.

  2. #212
    In reality, a Dynamic system can be describe in term of state space .
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamical_system

    The two entry questions above are just very rough "state space."




    Not to mention, if you cant describe what you do, that means you dont have the process, you cant repeat the act or body structure.

    Thus, again, if one cant answer the two entry level questions above, that mean one doesnt have a good handling of what one is doing. or one doesnt know the dynamic system.



    " Subconcious learning"? LOL

    Isnt it you are the one want to exam every TCMA in term of Scientific?

    now, explain you stuffs with Physics otherwise, you are fantasying.



    you just jump from one "WCK religion " to another "BJJ religion" and thinking BJJ religion is scientific because you subsconciously now believe in BJJ religion.


    again, until you can answer the two entry level question, your YJKYM training might not be even started yet. there goes your level of WCK.
    Last edited by Hendrik; 04-09-2009 at 12:32 PM.

  3. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    In reality, a Dynamic system can be describe in term of state space .
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamical_system

    The two entry questions above are just very rough "state space."
    That has nothing to do with what we are talking about -- which is how to learn or develop dynamic physical skills.

    Not to mention, if you cant describe what you do, that means you dont have the process, you cant repeat the act or body structure.

    Thus, again, if one cant answer the two entry level questions above, that mean one doesnt have a good handling of what one is doing. or one doesnt know the dynamic system.
    How to perform dynamic physical skills can't be described since the performance is ever-changing. How can you describe how to surf? How can you describe how to ride a bike? Or how to ski? These things are learned by doing them. And you can't intellectualize the process because the adjustments take place too quickly for the conscious mind.

    Subcouncious? LOL
    Isnt it you are the one want to exam every TCMA in term of Scientific? now, explain you stuffs with Physics otherwise, you are fantasying.
    Well, that's what Helio thought. And it's what I know to be true.

    Explain with physics? You're like the cartoon where the nerd tries to figure out how to sink the basketball through mathematical equations.

  4. #214
    Well, that's what Helio thought. And it's what I know to be true.

    Explain with physics? You're like the cartoon where the nerd tries to figure out how to sink the basketball through mathematical equations.


    isnt it a double standard? where is your critical thinking mind and scientific method and proof which you always demand from TCMA?





    that's what Helio thought. And it's what I know to be true.
    hahaha, sure, religion. hahaha.




    Even if I take your word,

    Helio did BJJ not WCK.
    and you might know BJJ but that is not equalvalent to know WCK.



    See, without be able to clearly answer those two entry level questions, how can anyone know you even know YJKYM the most basic of WCK?

    not to mention, my next question after you answer the two is can your YJKYM bring you to different brain wave state? measurement....etc. hahaha.

    better to be scientific proven.

    See, you ask for Scientific and critical thinking now we got the machine and process to do double blind test.

    yes, it is a physical skill on generating power in various way depend on acceleration needes, to direct force flow; and enter different brain wave state at will.

    The very basic WCK requirement in a scientific process where everyone can train in and get result and it is just following step by step instruction from the ancient ancestor of WCK.

    And those are just basic stuffs not even fighting yet. You see, that is how far it can go if one knows the basic in details?
    Last edited by Hendrik; 04-09-2009 at 01:10 PM.

  5. #215
    I appreciate you comparing wing chun to surfing or cycling, so many analogies are made that are totally off track but that one is simple and makes sense. It would help a lot of people understand wing chun more if they just used it more often, instead of training in it and imagining what it is for. A lot of chi bubbles need popping out there.

  6. #216
    the answers to Hendriks 2 questions obviously vary from school to school, as such there can be no official answer to use to look down on others for. Even if an answer is in his schools kuen kuit they are not universal to all schools.
    Is wing chun scientific? Is BJJ? How about MMA? Depends on the approach taken by the practicioner, are they testing and comparing their ideas and results? Or just going by what others have said. No physics description or fancy machines are necessary to scientificly study some things especially simple personal things.

  7. #217
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    I think that people forget that, as humans, everything we do is in the realm of biomechanics, simply because human motion is just that, human motion.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  8. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post

    by evidents on your post, you dont know indepth YJKYM that is forsure.
    I could have told you that about Niehoff (and Sanuro ronin) 2 years ago.

  9. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    I think that people forget that, as humans, everything we do is in the realm of biomechanics, simply because human motion is just that, human motion.
    You have missed the point (yet again)!

    Furthermore, during what phase of your 30 year martial arts "experience" did you come to realize the above (and obvious) fact?
    Last edited by Hardwork108; 04-09-2009 at 02:16 PM.

  10. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by punchdrunk View Post
    the answers to Hendriks 2 questions obviously vary from school to school,

    as such there can be no official answer to use to look down on others for.

    Even if an answer is in his schools kuen kuit they are not universal to all schools.

    It is independent to School or official or .....

    lets everyone answer them
    and see if the answer making sense in supporting pragmatic human mechanics and deliver the result for who ever train the basic stuffs.


    Now, what is your answer? care to share?
    Last edited by Hendrik; 04-09-2009 at 02:31 PM.

  11. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    I think that people forget that, as humans, everything we do is in the realm of biomechanics, simply because human motion is just that, human motion.
    Ok, so answer that two basic question on what the result in Biomechanics you gain or achieve?

  12. #222
    Hendrik says his questions are independant of school or official.. then why is YJKYM so different from school to school? Some systems don't even have YJKYM how would they answer his question? He is obvoiusly looking for specific answers and if anyone wastes their time answering he will say they are of a low level. Gotta love the forum sometimes, it's the chi'ziest place around.

  13. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by punchdrunk View Post
    Hendrik says his questions are independant of school or official.. then why is YJKYM so different from school to school?

    Some systems don't even have YJKYM how would they answer his question?
    .
    How would one do SLT without YJKYM? and without YJKYM is it still WCK?

  14. #224
    here is Pan Nam wing chun http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwaC7gJJLF4
    SLT with no YJKYM.
    Is that wing chun? Labels are useless to argue, better to come to an agreement so useful communication can occur.

  15. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by punchdrunk View Post
    here is Pan Nam wing chun http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwaC7gJJLF4
    SLT with no YJKYM.

    Is that wing chun? Labels are useless to argue, better to come to an agreement so useful communication can occur.

    If Late GM Pan Nam is here. I would ask him the same two questions.

    since he is not here, lets not get into others business.

    Now, what is your answer for that two questions for yourself ?
    Last edited by Hendrik; 04-09-2009 at 04:44 PM.

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